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callum
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:35 am Post subject: TEQ's pipe dream or reality? |
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I was recently alerted to the idea of TEQ's in a book titled 'The Last Oil Shock' by David Strahan. I am a little un-educated in this field but at the moment I cannot see any drawbacks to such a system being implemented in the UK and by extention the EU and the World.
I have tried some Google searches to find out if this idea is becoming a reality any time soon or whether it is just another idea to debate over.
Does anyone have any links to news reports or associated articles on this subject, or does anyone have an idea of the date (if at all) that the TEQ system might be implemented? |
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10467
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
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It's unlikely to be implemented, as far as I can see, because the EU can't fiddle it to the advantage of big business quite as easily as it can Cap and Trade.
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As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken. |
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emordnilap
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14227
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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TEQs (or something similar such as cap-and-dividend) are destined to become one of those great, world-changing ideas for a world that doesn't want to change.
Unlikely to ever be implemented, mainly due to fairness, a concept in conflict with the current economic model.
And Callum, welcome. Keep questioning. Don't stop.
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"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork |
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Shaun Chamberlin
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 116
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Callum,
You will find the information on TEQs' progress towards implementation here, including the various Government reports and statements on the matter:
http://www.teqs.net/indepth.html#Progress
As the others said above, it is a significant ask to implement a system which both tries to genuinely address fairness and 'fiddling' and provides a guarantee that carbon budgets are actually achieved.
In the current political climate it looks unlikely to happen in the next few years, but perhaps with the struggles of the Copenhagen process Governments can be pushed to look to something a little more 'edgy'.
Shaun |
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JohnB
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 6457
Location: Beautiful sunny West Wales!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Shaun, I read The Transition Timeline yesterday, and there's a big emphasis in it on TEQs. As it depends on the government to introduce it, I tend to agree with kenneal and emordnilap that it's not likely to happen. Do you think things have changed since writing the book?
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John
Eco-Hamlets UK - Small sustainable neighbourhoods |
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Shaun Chamberlin
Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 116
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| JohnB wrote: | | Shaun, I read The Transition Timeline yesterday, and there's a big emphasis in it on TEQs. As it depends on the government to introduce it, I tend to agree with kenneal and emordnilap that it's not likely to happen. Do you think things have changed since writing the book? |
As in, you read the whole thing yesterday? Gosh! Hope you found it helpful.
Well, as I said above, I think the implementation of TEQs in the next few years is not probable, but it's a possibility worth working towards, just like the rest of the Transition Vision outlined in the book. And I think the political debate is just beginning (and only beginning) to think about the question of how to actually implement emissions cuts. Which is, of course, where TEQs comes in.
As David Fleming put it in Energy and the Common Purpose, Large-scale problems do not require large-scale solutions,
they require small-scale solutions within a large-scale framework
I believe that TEQs could provide that key framework to support and empower community action, and in working to provide a framework at that scale I don't see how to avoid engagement with government and all the snail's pace progress that generally entails (nothing's changed in that regard since the book came out, no).
Nonetheless, it is those small-scale solutions at the community level that are the key to addressing our global challenges (for where else does all the energy demand and carbon emission come from?), and framework or no, we need to get on. As I said in my closing thoughts in the book, probably for the good of our minds and souls as much as anything. |
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JohnB
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 6457
Location: Beautiful sunny West Wales!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Shaun Chamberlin wrote: | | As in, you read the whole thing yesterday? Gosh! Hope you found it helpful. |
It amazed me too! Do I get a prize?
Actually I was interested in seeing how I could apply the idea of creating a timeline and backcasting on a very small scale to creating the eco-hamlet I'm about to start work on. I like the idea of creating a vision of what it could be like in 20 years time, and working out how to get there. I just got a bit carried away with my reading!
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John
Eco-Hamlets UK - Small sustainable neighbourhoods |
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