PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Burden of Irish debt could yet eclipse that of Greece

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Ireland
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13970
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Burden of Irish debt could yet eclipse that of Greece Reply with quote

A quite honest opinion of the Irish state.

Full text here.

Dermot Kelly wrote:
It is no longer a question of whether Ireland will go bust, but when. Unlike Greece, our woes do not stem from government debt, but instead from the governments open-ended guarantee to cover the losses of the banking system out of its citizens wallets.


I tend to agree with him; it was a shabby move. There were better ways of bailing out - or otherwise - the banks.

Any comments on this article?
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Quintus



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 598
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The bank guarantee may have looked like the cheapest bailout in the world, so far in September 2008, but it is not looking that way now.

Adding these bank losses on to the national debt means we are facing a debt by late 2012 of 115 per cent of GDP ...

snip ... While for most countries the two measures are the same, in Ireland GDP is a quarter larger than GNP. This means our optimistic debt to GDP forecast of 115 per cent translates into a debt to GNP ratio of 140 per cent, worse than where Greece is now.



Oops, time to close my post office account.

It's hard to say which countries in Europe are worse off, even Germany will be worried having invested heavily in indebted countries and (like China) having used a strategy of lending money to broke people to buy its own goods.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Peter



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1936
Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good one on Ireland:

Quote:

Irelands problems are, sadly, far deeper than the need for simple fiscal austerity. The Celtic tigers impressive reported growth over the past decades was in part based on its aggressive attempts to help major corporations in the United States reduce their tax bills. The Irish government set corporate taxes at just 12.5 percent of profits, thus attracting all sorts of businesses from computer services such as Google and Yahoo, to drug companies such as Forest Labs that set up corporate bases and washed profits through Ireland to keep them out of the hands of the Internal Revenue Service.

The remarkable success of this tax haven means that roughly 20 percent of Irish gross domestic product (G.D.P.) is actually profit transfers that raise little tax for Ireland and are owned by foreign companies. Since most of these profits are subject to the tax code, they are accounted for in Ireland where they are lightly taxed; they should not be counted as part of Irelands potential tax base. A more robust cross-country comparison would be to examine Irelands financial condition ignoring these transfers. This is easy to do: a nations gross national product excludes the profits of foreign residents. For most nations, gross national product and G.D.P. are near-identical, but in Ireland they are not.

When we adjust Irelands figures accordingly, the situation is dire. The budget deficit was about 17.9 percent of G.N.P. in 2009, and based on European Commission projections (and assuming the G.N.P.-G.D.P. gap remains the same) it will be roughly 14.6 percent in 2010 and 15.1 percent in 2011, while the debt-to-G.N.P. ratio at the end of this year is expected by our calculation to be 97 percent, and 109 percent at the end of 2011. These numbers make Ireland look similarly troubled to Greece, with a much higher budget deficit but lower levels of public debt.




Peter.
_________________
Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the seconds to hours?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13970
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truly mind boggling.

And no-one (in the general population) questioned what was going on. They were on a high.

I always knew the 'direct foreign investment' bullshit was just that and bound to end in tears. Look at Dell, bailed out in advance. They were bankrolled to set up here and of course it was all about 'creating jobs'.

When a better prospect came up (Poland), off they went, leaving hundreds without jobs which were never really there

Dell are being subsidised yet again until some other suckers fall for their line.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13970
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Official. Recession ended. ('Probably')
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Ireland All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group