PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Problems at EDF's French nuke site raise fears
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Nuclear Power
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
An Inspector Calls
Banned


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 961

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGR wrote:

How are the Isles set up for LNG? Now that the sheer abundance of natural gas around the world is apparent even to peakers, if the Russians won't sell you some of theirs, certainly we will. You guys worry about this stuff too much, the US has always been generous to our buddies in the "insignificant countries of the world" category.

Actually, we're quite well set up for LNG:

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn230.pdf

It's a 2004 planning document commissioned by the last government. That's the same government that wrote the 2003 Energy White Paper which was going to include nuke build, but Peter Hain and Margaret Beckett opposed them at the last minute, the nukes were dropped, so we had an energy plan that didn't balance the books!!!) Anyway, we've had the good sense to plan and build the two LNG terminals at Milford haven, and they're fully plumbed in. Despite great opposition from the environmentalists that the pipelines were going to ruin the countryside (unlike new windmill build). All of the planned facilities in this document are operational, now.

DominicJ was quite right about the coal station closures - I'd forgotten the time element imposed by the EU, and following last year's cold winter we are, as a consequence, closer to the deadline.

Rolling blackouts might not kill anyone, but they'll kill the political party that proposes them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
An Inspector Calls
Banned


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 961

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr brightside wrote:
My comment on going nuclear was sort of more general than specific. If there is a substantial liklihood of a shortfall as you suggest perhaps it might be an option to postpone the decommissioning of Oldbury and Wyfla which are due to bite the dust in 2012, and maybe Hinkley Point B and Hunterston B which are due in 2016; providing of course that they meet current safety criteria. Having said that i'm sure someone could counter that with reasons why they should close, my angle is a pretty easy one to adopt!

If closing existing nuclear facilities is necessary, then perhaps contractors should start pitching for our business. Are there any other companies who could bring EDF's date of 2020 forward to meet our needs a bit better?

It's not a given the Wylfa and Oldbury will close in 2012. There's nothing wrong with the condition of the plant. It's a shortage of suitable magnox fuel. But I should think that if things got tricky, they could conjure up some new fuel at Sellafield.

I don't think either the proposed AP1000s or Arriva reactors could be on-line by 2020. The solution is to build gas stations, which you can knock up in no time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7634

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Inspector Calls wrote:
It's not a given the Wylfa and Oldbury will close in 2012. There's nothing wrong with the condition of the plant. It's a shortage of suitable magnox fuel. But I should think that if things got tricky, they could conjure up some new fuel at Sellafield.


My understanding is that reactor 2 at Oldbury is already permanently closed. with reactor 1 following by the end of next year. BBC
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mr brightside



Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 224
Location: On the fells

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal wrote:
But it would take ten years to roll out the first nuke and possibly longer for the second because there are supply restrictions on the steelwork for the pressure vessels.


What material is the RPV made from? Or is it a bureaucracy problem?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
An Inspector Calls
Banned


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 961

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
My understanding is that reactor 2 at Oldbury is already permanently closed. with reactor 1 following by the end of next year. BBC

Oldbury
Reactor 1 is still set to continue to 2012 as I said. Reactor 2 is deemed closed, but that was only June this year. It probably won't change, but . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5265
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with reactor pressure vessels is the limited number of foundries that are big enough to cast the vessel in a single piece, because welds are a weak point in a nuclear environment. The number is (last I heard ) one, and its order books are full for many years already.

[edit]

3 foundries, one each in Japan, Russia, China.

http://www.neimagazine.com/storyprint.asp?sc=2056936

At least orders from Japan and Germany will be off the books.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mr brightside



Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 224
Location: On the fells

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RalphW wrote:
The problem with reactor pressure vessels is the limited number of foundries that are big enough to cast the vessel in a single piece, because welds are a weak point in a nuclear environment. The number is (last I heard ) one, and its order books are full for many years already.

[edit]

3 foundries, one each in Japan, Russia, China.

http://www.neimagazine.com/storyprint.asp?sc=2056936

At least orders from Japan and Germany will be off the books.


Interesting, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9815
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGR wrote:
kenneal wrote:
Iraq? Short term memory loss?


Show me how much oil we stole from them. Certainly, if the US is fighting oil wars, once we owned the joint (which we certainly did) the first thing we should have done was start filling up the supertankers. Unless someone has supposed we built a pipeline from Iraq to the GOM to sneak it out so no one would notice? Very Happy

You Brits owned South Africa when you were busy colonizing the planet, even instituted taxes on those poor people. You would think that if the war was to own or control some natural resource or another we would...own or control that resource. Where does the US get most of its imported oil from? Oh yeah! Not Iraq or Afghanistan!


You're getting kicked out of there like you were out of Vietnam that's why you don't have any of their oil. You also do your colonising through the petro dollar. The dollar is the only reason the US can carry on its present lifestyle. If the US dollar wasn't the world's petro currency the US it would have been trashed years ago.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RGR
Banned


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2011
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="An Inspector Calls"]

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RGR
Banned


Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 2011
Location: Rocky Mountains, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kenneal"]

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5265
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the last few weeks several of the leaders of the Afghanistan government have been assassinated by the.Taliban.

If the US/Nato forces leave, the existing government wouldn't last a week.

You cannot impose a Western form of government in that country. Every attempt in the last two hundred years has failed.

We should know...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/18/afghanistan-government-assassination-hamid-karzai
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6212
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr brightside wrote:
kenneal wrote:
But it would take ten years to roll out the first nuke and possibly longer for the second because there are supply restrictions on the steelwork for the pressure vessels.


What material is the RPV made from? Or is it a bureaucracy problem?


AFAIK a fairly standard grade of steel is used.
The bottleneck is not raw material supply, but facilities to manufacture such large pressure vessels to the required high specification.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Nuclear Power All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group