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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire
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 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:33 am Post subject: Sorry, but Corbin must be a nutter! |
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Until I saw this I thought the bloke talked some sense!
How can you justify bringing an unlimited number of people into this country when all the science tells us that climate change will cause shortages of food in the next few decades and sea level is likely to rise by up to seven metres before 2100. There will be major world wide food shortages and we already import almost half our food. We will lose some of our best agricultural land and vast swathes of housing around the coast. Many of our nuclear power stations will go under water and most of our oil and gas installations too.
On that basis we are going to find it difficult to protect our standard of living with our current population let alone with god know how many more! Sorry, but I now agree with most of the press; the bloke's a nutter. A well meaning but very ignorant nutter!
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woodburner
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:58 am Post subject: |
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The same label applies to everyone who tries to ignore the population issue, whether world wide or in the UK. Regrettably it includes people with honestly held opinions that "saving" lives by mass medical intervention, or food intervention is a "good" thing. It will only make the problem worse, as it is doing now. The longer the problem is swept under the carpet, the worse it is going to be, but you will never get this over to the "permant growth" lobby.
The standard of living for many people in the UK is amazingly high (includes everyone posting on PS as they have a computer) and it will plummet even if there is at least a small population reduction.
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AutomaticEarth
Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Sorry, but Corbin must be a nutter! |
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| kenneal - lagger wrote: | Until I saw this I thought the bloke talked some sense!
How can you justify bringing an unlimited number of people into this country when all the science tells us that climate change will cause shortages of food in the next few decades and sea level is likely to rise by up to seven metres before 2100. |
I was going to post this in the Migrant thread, but you beat me to it! 
Perhaps Corbyn is basing unlimited immigration on the basis that there will be unlimited emigration?  |
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7270
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Sorry, but Corbin must be a nutter! |
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| kenneal - lagger wrote: | Until I saw this I thought the bloke talked some sense!
How can you justify bringing an unlimited number of people into this country when all the science tells us that climate change will cause shortages of food in the next few decades and sea level is likely to rise by up to seven metres before 2100. There will be major world wide food shortages and we already import almost half our food. We will lose some of our best agricultural land and vast swathes of housing around the coast. Many of our nuclear power stations will go under water and most of our oil and gas installations too.
On that basis we are going to find it difficult to protect our standard of living with our current population let alone with god know how many more! Sorry, but I now agree with most of the press; the bloke's a nutter. A well meaning but very ignorant nutter! |
Yes. Sad to say. The corporate capitalists are nutters for believing that perpetual growth will mean that the inherent flaws of capitalism can be perpetually papered over. And the limp liberals are nutters for believing that perpetual growth can deliver endless resources to fund public services. Whilst superficially appearing to be very different, their lunacies both rest on the same delusional premise |
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johnhemming2
Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2159
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Corbyn in his analysis concentrates on the impact on the individual directly affected by a policy, but ignores indirect effects. Hence he believes austerity is wrong because of the impact of the cuts and restricting immigration is wrong because of the impact on the migrants.
I worry about the indirect impact of policies. For example if we don't make some cuts the countries finances go haywire, if we don't have some restrictions on migration lots of other things go wrong. |
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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We all know austerity is inevitable. That is not the issue. The issue is that our ruling class are attempting to ensure that they do not feel any of that austerity while the rest of us do.
If we don't want to see the rise of fascism, that has to change. |
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clv101
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Little John wrote: |
If we don't want to see the rise of fascism, that has to change. |
Absolutely. I think a win for Leave makes that rise of fascism more likely... other opinions are available! 
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woodburner
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: |
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A win for remain will make Corbyn's approach inevitable as there will be no way to control immigration, whereas a rise of faschism is only an opinion.
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| woodburner wrote: | | A win for remain will make Corbyn's approach inevitable as there will be no way to control immigration, whereas a rise of faschism is only an opinion. |
The rise of fascism is directly consequent on the Liberal intelligentsia not grasping the nettle of a whole host of issues and dealing with them in a realistic manner. If they don't then the people, in their desperation, will turn to a strongman. Furthermore, I think a win for remain is as likely to put Corbyn under pressure as it is any other of the remain camp. In a way, almost more so because in taking his position on immigration, he has massively disillusioned a very large proportion of the working class vote.
Last edited by Little John on Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| clv101 wrote: | | Little John wrote: |
If we don't want to see the rise of fascism, that has to change. |
Absolutely. I think a win for Leave makes that rise of fascism more likely... other opinions are available! |
A win for remain is a direct consequence of change not having been implemented. You have your causes and effects the wrong way round. |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 10226
Location: south east England
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, but Corbin must be a nutter! |
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| kenneal - lagger wrote: | Until I saw this I thought the bloke talked some sense!
How can you justify bringing an unlimited number of people into this country when all the science tells us that climate change will cause shortages of food in the next few decades and sea level is likely to rise by up to seven metres before 2100. There will be major world wide food shortages and we already import almost half our food. We will lose some of our best agricultural land and vast swathes of housing around the coast. Many of our nuclear power stations will go under water and most of our oil and gas installations too.
On that basis we are going to find it difficult to protect our standard of living with our current population let alone with god know how many more! Sorry, but I now agree with most of the press; the bloke's a nutter. A well meaning but very ignorant nutter! |
That isn't quite fair. Biff Vernon says "there should be no limit to immigration, we should get rid of borders." That is a nutter speaking, or at least a person who has trouble grasping reality. Corbyn is not saying this. He's saying "You can't really have an upper limit on migrations while you have free movement of people." He is saying that it is impossible to control migration within the EU as things currently stand, so there's no point in trying. And he's right. |
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7270
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, but Corbin must be a nutter! |
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| UndercoverElephant wrote: | | kenneal - lagger wrote: | Until I saw this I thought the bloke talked some sense!
How can you justify bringing an unlimited number of people into this country when all the science tells us that climate change will cause shortages of food in the next few decades and sea level is likely to rise by up to seven metres before 2100. There will be major world wide food shortages and we already import almost half our food. We will lose some of our best agricultural land and vast swathes of housing around the coast. Many of our nuclear power stations will go under water and most of our oil and gas installations too.
On that basis we are going to find it difficult to protect our standard of living with our current population let alone with god know how many more! Sorry, but I now agree with most of the press; the bloke's a nutter. A well meaning but very ignorant nutter! |
That isn't quite fair. Biff Vernon says "there should be no limit to immigration, we should get rid of borders." That is a nutter speaking, or at least a person who has trouble grasping reality. Corbyn is not saying this. He's saying "You can't really have an upper limit on migrations while you have free movement of people." He is saying that it is impossible to control migration within the EU as things currently stand, so there's no point in trying. And he's right. |
Yes, but by campaigning to stay in the EU he is demonstrating that he is prepared to live with uncontrolled immigration as a price for whatever benefit he see continued membership otherwise conferring. Indeed, if his pronouncements on it are anything to go by, he doesn't even see it as a price. He sees it as a postive benefit to the country. The only way he could see it that way is if he is tied, no more or less than the Tories, to the model of perpetual growth. He just want to see that growth shared out more, that's all. That's why I say Corbyn is simply a stepping stone to something else. What, I am not sure. But it probably involves a strongman. Hopefully a realist. Hopefully of the Left. |
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johnhemming2
Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2159
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Little John wrote: | | That is not the issue. The issue is that our ruling class are attempting to ensure that they do not feel any of that austerity while the rest of us do. |
The coalition did concentrate on the distribution of the cuts trying to ensure that they are fair as a proportion. The conservatives don't do that. |
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Little John
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7270
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| johnhemming2 wrote: | | Little John wrote: | | That is not the issue. The issue is that our ruling class are attempting to ensure that they do not feel any of that austerity while the rest of us do. |
The coalition did concentrate on the distribution of the cuts trying to ensure that they are fair as a proportion. The conservatives don't do that. |
Your comments here either display a breathtaking level of disengenuity or they display a breathtaking lack of capacity to understand the scale of discontent. |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 10226
Location: south east England
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, he appears to be saying that the tories are worse than the libdems. Which is true, in exactly the same way that ebola is worse than pig flu. |
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