PowerSwitch

woodburner · Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 4071

They will probably make a magnamous offer to take away all of the waste and dispose of it Shocked

_________________
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein

adam2 · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject:

China making what some might consider to be threats regarding the delay.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37016120
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"

cubes · Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Posts: 692 Location: Norfolk

I think trusting China (or any other country) with important infrastructure is a mistake but you also have to wonder why you would want to piss off what could be a major trading partner post-brexit (should it happen).

Little John · Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Posts: 7218 Location: UK

woodburner · Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 4071

The Chinese stole the wind turbine software, they will be able to do the same with nuclear power.
_________________
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein

PS_RalphW · Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5580 Location: Cambridge

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/14/crown-estate-hinkley-point-nuclear-debate

Crown estate says wind is cheaper than nuclear.

adam2 · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject:

I suspect that they are correct in that wind power is cheaper than nuclear, and even if they are not correct at present, they soon will be.

Nuclear energy is liable to become more expensive in time as it is tending towards greater complexity, with more and more safety features to add costs and reduce reliability.
Decommissioning/dismantling is also apt to become more expensive with time as ever higher standards are expected.

Wind power by contrast is becoming cheaper due to mass production of the turbines, and greater experience in installing them.

Wind is not the complete answer for the simple reason that wind power is not continually available.
By my reasonably informed estimate, the UK grid could accept at least another 6GW of wind capacity, and with minor alterations, about twice as much.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"

adam2 · Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject:

The uncertain future of Hinkley C was mentioned on tonight's evening news (BBC early evening news, West country edition, Friday 28/08/2016)

An expert implied that the proposed nuclear plant is not as vital as is commonly suggested, and that alternatives including wind power would be better value for money.
The vast cost and time overruns of the two similar plants were mentioned.

I felt that the report was reasonably balanced.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"

cubes · Joined: 10 Jun 2008 Posts: 692 Location: Norfolk

I've been wondering if the hold-up is more to use it as a brexit bargaining chip more than anything else. silly idea?

vtsnowedin · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject:

PS_RalphW · Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5580 Location: Cambridge

BBC is blogging that Hinkley will go ahead - because they haven't heard anything to say it won't

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37352816

PS_RalphW · Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 5580 Location: Cambridge

BBC headlinig Hinkley to go ahead - with conditions.

Which sounds like more prevarication = one possibility is requiring EDF to re- confirn its board decision, which its own unions opposed. Sounds like we want France to pull the plug to save our face with China

adam2 · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:38 am Post subject:

Slightly more detail here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Whilst the government decision sounds final, we must remember the number of "final" approvals that have previously been given.

The latest delay must have added to costs and I suspect either EDF will demand a larger subsidy, or that china will demand a more profitable return on their investment.
Our government will no doubt refuse to pay more in either up front subsidy or via a higher price for the electricity produced, leading to another few years of studies, reviews and consultations.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"

clv101 · Site Admin Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 8168

UK electric demand peaked back in 2005, been falling since and has fallen by almost twice Hinkley's expect output. This is despite increasing population and GDP growth.

Hinkley C, expected to generated ~8% UK power for £18bn+ in 10yrs time? Why not just cut demand 8%? Gotta be cheaper/quicker? ...and no ongoing bills! Peak demand can be cut for £203/kW, so replacing Hinkley's output would cost just £650m, far cheaper!
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog

Potemkin Villager · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1141 Location: Narnia

If the "go" button has really been irreversibly pushed on this disaster in waiting, as the Beeb are spinning, I predict this is as good as it gets and relationships between the project partners can only spiral downwards in a jet stream of mutual distrust, bitter recrimination and endlessly "unanticipated" enormous cost over runs and brain hurting technical "issues" (the Brexit syndrome).

So yes whilst construction may now proceed, it will never get as far as being commissioned. This is total political, economic and environmental poison and demonstrates how inexperienced a highly arrogant and stuck up it's arse UK plc is at negotiating from a position of weakness.