PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Are we on the brink of an electric car revolution?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Transport
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5237
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that is true of all energy sources, including oil. The EROEI of wind is at least as good as new oil field developments now. The energy consumed building the car is far higher than the energy used to build the wind turbine to power it. It is the car that is least sustainAble. Not the transport.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3342

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many figures about, have you reliable references for this?
_________________
If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while you count your money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4224
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's news Tesla passes Ford in market capitalization based on quarterly sales of just 25,000 cars vs. Fords sales of 236,250. Rolling Eyes
http://247wallst.com/autos/2017/04/03/tesla-passes-ford-becomes-second-most-valuable-car-company-in-america/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13918
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another bit of propaganda from the representatives of the 'hard-pressed motorist' (what a turn-off that phrase is). Here's a sample of their neutral language:

Quote:
But hard working drivers and small businesses are now being bullied by draconian policies from out of touch politicians, unqualified to solve the emissions issue


...although I almost agree with the final clause! 'Not allowed to tackle' or 'not forced to confront' would be more truthful than 'unqualified to solve'.

Take time to fill in their 'survey' (are the respondents representative of the general population? will the results be biased in any way? are any questions loaded? Laughing ) here.

If you're outside the UK, put in the postcode YO26 4XJ (York Railway Museum) or SW8 4AA (Battersea Dogs' Home) or G76 0QQ (Whitelee Windfarm)
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6106
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todays Queens speech contained a statement that petrol filling stations are to be required to provide charging points for electric vehicles.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40352884

Sounds like a welcome step forward.
Any sudden or large scale adoption of such facilities could put a serious strain on electrical infrastructure.
In practice I suspect that the take up will be slow enough as to be hardly noticed.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5237
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wording was all motor services and many major petrol stations. Ecotricity has already built those. What is now needed is filling in the large gaps where motorways are not. And a standardised payment mechanism and central registration. At present the networks are incompatible, regional, and have large registration fees which make long distance traveled very inconvenient and unnecessarily expensive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7572

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supermarkets seem like obvious hosts for electric charging. They already have good power supply to run the supermarket, already have the space in their car parks and people are very happy to 'wait' while their car charges as they shop.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4224
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Supermarkets seem like obvious hosts for electric charging. They already have good power supply to run the supermarket, already have the space in their car parks and people are very happy to 'wait' while their car charges as they shop.
If you were traveling from London to Edinburgh and back how many supermarkets would you want to stop at and what would you buy. It might work for the housewife or house husband ( I'm getting close to being one) but for travelers or day to day business commuters I think the charge points need to be elsewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oobers



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Hebden Bridge

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
clv101 wrote:
Supermarkets seem like obvious hosts for electric charging. They already have good power supply to run the supermarket, already have the space in their car parks and people are very happy to 'wait' while their car charges as they shop.
If you were traveling from London to Edinburgh and back how many supermarkets would you want to stop at and what would you buy. It might work for the housewife or house husband ( I'm getting close to being one) but for travelers or day to day business commuters I think the charge points need to be elsewhere.


You would go by train..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13918
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teslas are 'affordable' now so should provide a competitive boost to the new electric car market.

By 'affordable' I mean comparable to similar high-quality cars, it's relative. I'll be dead before it's relative to me.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pepperman



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a very neat solution to the problem of installing on-street charging infrastructure at low cost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaEhBjt1ls
https://www.ubitricity.com/en

Put the clever bit in the charging cable and put the cost of that on to the EV driver. The sockets they plug in to then make use of existing power infrastructure via a simple and relatively low cost adaption of lamp posts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6106
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pepperman wrote:
Here's a very neat solution to the problem of installing on-street charging infrastructure at low cost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaEhBjt1ls
https://www.ubitricity.com/en

Put the clever bit in the charging cable and put the cost of that on to the EV driver. The sockets they plug in to then make use of existing power infrastructure via a simple and relatively low cost adaption of lamp posts.


Sounds a good idea for overnight charging outside ones home, but the limited electricity supply from most street lamps would restrict this to slow charging.
Not comparable to the fast charging being proposed at filling stations.

Still useful though, and if most of the use is overnight then it wont add significantly to peak electricity demand.

Any large sale adoption of EVs will introduce challenges in supplying enough electricity for even overnight charging. We are however a long way from this being a concern at present.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 546
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any guesstimates of the battery life of mainly fast charged packs?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3342

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are no free lunches, fast charging drastically reduces battery life as does deep discharging.
_________________
If you think the economy is more important than the environment, try holding your breath while you count your money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pepperman



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 758

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Sounds a good idea for overnight charging outside ones home, but the limited electricity supply from most street lamps would restrict this to slow charging.
Not comparable to the fast charging being proposed at filling stations.

Still useful though, and if most of the use is overnight then it wont add significantly to peak electricity demand.

Any large sale adoption of EVs will introduce challenges in supplying enough electricity for even overnight charging. We are however a long way from this being a concern at present.


Yes this will be in the few kW range but 3kW from midnight to 7am will give you about 50 miles range which is about double the average daily mileage so it'll be plenty for most.

We need the bulk of charging to be overnight or in the middle of the day, so really what I think we need is a lot of low cost sockets in residential areas and workplaces and then a much more modest network of rapid chargers, mostly found on the motorways and other major roads. Only a tiny percentage of trips will require the use of rapid chargers so the the heavy lifting should be done by the slow chargers.

The slow charging must be smart and all charging needs to be dynamically priced. If you wish to charge your battery at 400kW at 7pm on a Wednesday evening then you should expect to pay a lot for the privilege, but if you're charging slowly at work on a sunny day or charging after midnight on a windy night then you should be getting the electricity for practically nothing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Transport All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13 ... 15, 16, 17  Next
Page 12 of 17

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group