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Fuel Storage for stoves and lights
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who among us can store a year or two supply of petrol? (To me gasoline).
Not many if you are honest about it. So you might as well make your plans based on not having any gas or diesel you did not produce yourself.
If some happens to be available that is all to the good but if it is not there you should have a plan for survival that works without it.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3384

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6218
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Who among us can store a year or two supply of petrol? (To me gasoline).
Not many if you are honest about it. So you might as well make your plans based on not having any gas or diesel you did not produce yourself.
If some happens to be available that is all to the good but if it is not there you should have a plan for survival that works without it.


Very few of us could store enough petrol for a year or twos normal use, but IMHO it is still worth storing the maximum amount permitted by law, in the UK provided that this can be done safely.

Firstly many people are reliant on a car for travel to work. It would be well to have sufficient fuel on hand for at least a few weeks of commuting. If normal fuel supplies are not restored in a few weeks, then that indicates a fairly serious situation and you may no longer have a job, so not a long term concern.

Alternatively, a modest stash of petrol could last some years if reserved for medical or other emergencies rather than being used routinely.

I keep a supply of petrol and I don't even have a driving licence ! Many friends and neighbours do drive and would probably be able to give me a lift in an emergency, provided that I COULD REPLACE THE SCARCE PETROL CONSUMED.
And in the event of TEOTWAWKI I could drive if the situation was serious enough that lack of a licence or insurance was irrelevant.

Finally petrol could be a valuable article of trade

"I promise to pay the bearer on demand at Fellbridge camp fifty gallons of petrol"

"Trust adam2, trust his petrol notes"
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:

Finally petrol could be a valuable article of trade

"I promise to pay the bearer on demand at Fellbridge camp fifty gallons of petrol"

"Trust adam2, trust his petrol notes"

Back during the first energy crisis there was a bumper sticker that showed a pretty girl in a mini skirt holding a joint in one hand and a gas can in the other. The legend read Grass , Gas or A$$, Nobody rides free Very Happy
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adam2
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have recently used some paraffin that had been stored for 8 years and found that some loss by evaporation has apparently occurred.
4 liter plastic containers held only about 3 liters. This I find surprising as paraffin is not volatile as petrol is and I would expect it to keep well even in plastic.

I have therefore decided that longer term paraffin stocks should be placed into good quality steel jerry cans.
I have been reluctant to decant paraffin into jerry cans in the past lest it be confused with petrol.
However I have now found a supplier of steel jerry cans in blue, the colour traditionally recommended for paraffin, so as to avoid confusion with petrol which was stored in red containers.

https://www.jerrycans.co.uk/contact-us

Supplier of jerry cans in various colours including blue. I have no connection with the above supplier.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4281
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
I have recently used some paraffin that had been stored for 8 years and found that some loss by evaporation has apparently occurred.
4 liter plastic containers held only about 3 liters. This I find surprising as paraffin is not volatile as petrol is and I would expect it to keep well even in plastic.

I have therefore decided that longer term paraffin stocks should be placed into good quality steel jerry cans.
I have been reluctant to decant paraffin into jerry cans in the past lest it be confused with petrol.
However I have now found a supplier of steel jerry cans in blue, the colour traditionally recommended for paraffin, so as to avoid confusion with petrol which was stored in red containers.

https://www.jerrycans.co.uk/contact-us

Supplier of jerry cans in various colours including blue. I have no connection with the above supplier.

You could always just spray paint your red steel can. Even stored in steel drums or tanks, diesel , kerosene or paraffin as you call it does deteriorate over time albeit much more slowly then gasoline/petrol. Rotating stock , first in first out is the best solution.
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Lurkalot



Joined: 08 Mar 2014
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:

I keep a supply of petrol and I don't even have a driving licence ! Many friends and neighbours do drive and would probably be able to give me a lift in an emergency, provided that I COULD REPLACE THE SCARCE PETROL CONSUMED.


As I understand petrol sold in the U.K. has alcohol added , up to 5% if I recall, and that makes the fuel slightly hygroscopic causing it to "go off". Recommendations are metal containers filled as closely as possible to reduce the air gap but I did wonder about using petrol sparingly and the rest degrading in the can. If you were to use yours as suggested in your post would you then decant the remainder into smaller cans or perhaps , as I've heard suggested , drop glass marbles into the van to raise the level to the top?
One other question. Assuming the stored petrol has gone off or is considered unfit to use in a vehicle or generator would I be correct in believing it would still be useable in something as crude as a Benghazi cooker?
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In view of the situation in Saudi Arabia, might I suggest reviewing stocks of oil derived fuels.
If you use oil central heating, have the tank filled.
If you drive, keep vehicle tanks well filled.
If you use petrol, store the maximum amount permitted by law.
If you use diesel fuel, consider large stocks.
If you use paraffin/kerosene, keep ample stocks.
LPG, likewise.
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PowerswitchClive



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
In view of the situation in Saudi Arabia, might I suggest reviewing stocks of oil derived fuels.


That sounds like very sound advice Adam!

Just out of interest to the earlier post on paraffin storage. Were the storage containers the ones supplied completely sealed with the new paraffin from the supplier, or was the paraffin stored in your own plastic containers?

We use the modern electronic Japanese (they call them laser heaters) paraffin heaters in this large house we have in the mountains in Spain... made by a company called Zibro. Can heat a room, 45m2 with a double height ceiling to 21c on 0.25 of a litre of paraffin per hour

I rotate a stock of around 180 litres in 20L containers from the DIY store. I was generally under the impression they were good for 5 years unopened.
We have diesel central heating, but this uses 2.2 litres an hour to heat the house, so we use it sparingly.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The paraffin was stored in the original sealed containers in which it was supplied.
Each container was marked as being 4 litres but many were found to only contain about 3 litres. The loss is about £40 worth.
Stored in a shed.

In future I will decant paraffin into blue steel jerry cans, now that I have found a supplier of these.
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adam2
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know what the UP TO DATE law is on domestic storage of petrol.
My understanding is that the law (or perhaps secondary rules made under the law) has recently changed.

AFAIK, the present rule is no more than 30 (thirty) litres may stored in purpose made containers of metal or plastic.
This would appear to permit of a pair of steel jerry cans, each of 20 litres capacity, provided that each one contains only 15 litres of petrol.
The petrol in tanks built into vehicles does not count towards the 30 litre limit, but any portable cans within the vehicles do count.

The old and now obsolete rules used to be interpreted as up to 20 litres in two purpose made metal containers each not exceeding 10 litres, or up to 10 litres in two purpose made plastic containers each not exceeding 5 litres.

The old regulations were poorly drawn up and could be taken to mean up to 20 litres in metal AND up to 10 litres in plastic, but it was generally accepted that the intent was up to 20 litres in metal OR up to 10 litres in plastic.

In theory up to 275 litres may be stored under certain conditions, but the conditions are strict and very few domestic premises would meet the requirements.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There might be local byelaws as well.
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