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Westminster Terror Attack
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 590
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not net migration that people talk about. That is the statistic that Whitehall and Westminster cling to to try and desperately lower the headline figure. If we need to look at emigration [why?], there are 3 large groups of emigrants.

1) Young talented who have employment offers overseas - a huge loss to the UK.

2) Financially secure eg retired, who have often made their money in the UK and therefore extracting money from our economy - another huge loss.

3) The feckless moonbeam chasers who drift back and forward wasting aviation fuel due to cheap airfare, adding little value to the community and costing taxpayers for services. Like those dudes in London who were flying back to Africa every month to sell the stolen laptops they collected, or the EU workers who apply for a UK agency job [only advertised to foreign workers, of course], apply for child benefit, then go back home and continue to draw benefits paid into the UK bank account that the DWP requires you to have.

The only time a student would count as an im/em, surely, is when they drift into illegal overtime, such as the Brazillian 'student' who was employed in the graft tax haven of Londonistan as an electrician [until he was shot in error] - a vocation that a brit would not be allowed to do without regular re-certification. Or the illegal workers employed by immigration judges in the sleaze of Londonistan.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
The only time a student would count as an im/em, surely, is when they drift into illegal overtime, such as the Brazillian 'student' who was employed in the graft tax haven of Londonistan as an electrician [until he was shot in error] - a vocation that a brit would not be allowed to do without regular re-certification. Or the illegal workers employed by immigration judges in the sleaze of Londonistan.

When the government counts migration it counts people. Students are people.
Hence they immigrate at the start of their course and emigrate at the end of it.

My personal view is that this should be taken out of net migration targets as it benefits the country to have people come here to study and then leave at later point.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4102
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For once John I agree with you! Students should be kept out of migration figures.
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Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are not, however, and that causes problems. If discussing the policy issue that needs to be taken into account.

If you go back 20 years someone could come here on a visit visa, overstay and nothing really happened apart from the fact that they could at some stage apply for citiizenship.

Now if someone overstays they have to make an application for a visa from outside the UK, for example. They also cannot work or potentially rent property without valid immigration status.

The changes in migration policy will have long term effects which we should see soon.

Also the changes in terms of benefits for children beyond the first two children will have long term effects, but have only just come into force (in the sense that only children born after around now (I am not sure precisely the start date) will fall into the category.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The never ending string of attacks by Muslims on non-muslims all over the world has now convinced me Jonny is actually right. There is already a global war going on between Islam and everything non-Islamic.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there really no difference between IS and all other Muslims?

Obviously there is. The attacks in Egypt are clearly IS.

Furthermore it is worth noting that there is a substantial conflict between Sunni and Shi'a.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:


Furthermore it is worth noting that there is a substantial conflict between Sunni and Shi'a.


The fact that two branches of Islam are just as hostile to each other as one of them is to the rest of the world hardly helps the situation. Yes, Sunni is worse than Shia.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are simply being emotionally upset by the attacks on members of your tribe without trying to work out either
a) What the cause is
b) Who is really responsible.

Hence you are aiming to build up a conflict which currently involves relatively few people into a much larger conflict.

I have for many years been concerned about attacks on Christians in the Middle East and Asia. However, until recently they didn't get any coverage.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a relevant story about terrorist attacks from other tribal conflicts and
the numbers of deaths.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39540371

Where it is relevant is that I think that not expanding the conflict is a good strategy rather than expanding it.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5664
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already asked you this question John Hemming. But, since you have yet to answer it, I shall ask again:

What is the evolutionary function of tribalism? In other words, why do you think it both exists and has persisted over evolutionary time?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1961

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The emotional desire to attack a tribe that attacks you protects the tribe a tribe that does not react at all to attacks would get turned into slaves.

That being said there are then two questions:
a) Where do you define the line as to describing what the tribes are. Are the tribes based on religious allegiance alone or should the tribal line be those who follow the rule of law and support human rights against those who actively don't.

b) What sort of action to take. Should it be a proportionate and well thought out action that goes towards resolving a dispute or should it simply be random attacks on members of the other tribe not caring whether or not that escalates a conflict.

To be fair to Trump his use of cruise missiles against Syria did involve pre-warning the Russians. Hence it clearly isn't random.

We did have a case in Birmingham where a Ukrainian simply killed an elderly Muslim on the street because he was Muslim. That is an example of a random attack.

Daesh are inclined to the sort of attacks that escalate a conflict some wish to assist the conflict by broadening it to involve people who are not currently involved. I wish to concentrate on the extremists (and I don't take the view that someone who supports UK law as it was in the early 1960s is by definition an extremist).
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