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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
He doesn't mention the sprawling population which is the driver of the sprawling everything else!

So come on Sushil, instead of preaching to us come back and argue some valid points with us please.



Environment has been destroyed by industrialization not by population......If population could destroy environment then it would have got destroyed millions of years ago because the combined population of millions of other species was much greater than the current human population.

World population has not increased.......It has decreased......World population has been decimated.

Increase in human population has coincided with decimation of millions of other species.

The burden of population has not increased.......The burden of lifestyle has increased.

Environment has not been destroyed by the burden of population........Environment has been destroyed by the burden of industrial lifestyle.
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Millions of other species destroyed environment only for food.

Forest man destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian man destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial man has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter PLUS thousands of consumer goods and services.

Industrial man has destroyed Exponential Extra Environment.

EXPONENTIAL EXTRA ENVIRONMENT.

(It is the urban population of industrial society that has destroyed exponential extra environment)

The collective work of human society must be limited to food, clothing and shelter........Millions of other species only get food from earth.

Millions of other species have already been decimated by industrial activity.........Man is next on the list........Human collapse will come with lightning speed now.
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Human overpopulation is also a consequence of industrialization........It took hundreds of thousands of years for human population to reach 1 billion in 1800 AD (even though most families had 5 - 15 children all over the world in pre-industrial societies) ........From 1 billion it jumped to over 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrial revolution despite drastic reduction in number of children per family........This happened because of modern medicine which drastically reduced the death rate by curing diseases caused by virus and bacteria........If man had continued living in agrarian stage, human population would have been less than 2 billion today and this planet would have been in very good condition.
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Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.

Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years........Man lived in villages in agrarian society for 10,000 years........Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.

If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
.......
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is nonsense Sushil. The human species is qualitatively different from other species and has been for a very long time. We have been destroying eco-systems since we first came out of Africa.

Industrialization has merely accelerated an ongoing process of destruction.
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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As LJ says, the human population is different to other species. Other species, over quite a short time, get into balance with the environment as they are totally reliant on the local environment for all their food, water and shelter. Humans, with their ability to mould the local environment and import goods over thousands of miles are able to totally take over from other species destroying the web of life which most of us don't realise that we are reliant upon.

Humans are able to overload any local environment which is what we have done already over much of the world. You are doing the same in India just with over population and we are doing it in the UK with immigration.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
We have been destroying eco-systems since we first came out of Africa.


Great news........As if others did not know that already.

Did I ever say pre-industrial man did not destroy environment???

The issue is the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction.

Comparing pre-industrial environmental destruction with industrial environmental destruction is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.

Environmental collapse all over the planet happens when all three ecosystems are destroyed - Forests, Oceans and Atmosphere.........Industrial society has destroyed all three.......Which pre-industrial society destroyed all three ecosystems?

Industrial society destroyed billions of acres of forests with millions of industries and corporations which has decimated millions of land species.........Industrial society has decimated millions of marine species with industrial fishing, billions of tonnes of chemical waste, billions of tonnes of plastic waste, acidification of oceans and oxygen deprived dead zones.........Industrial society has destroyed the atmosphere with billions of tonnes of industrial gases.

Which pre-industrial society came close to doing all this???

Pre-industrial society did not destroy the oceans.......Pre-industrial society did not poison the atmosphere with billions of tonnes of industrial gases.......Pre-industrial society destroyed only a small fraction of forests destroyed by industrial society.

Comparing pre-industrial environmental destruction with industrial environmental destruction is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.

.......
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All civilisations prior to our current one destroyed themselves by using up their local resources. New civilisations arose in areas where the resources had not yet been depleted. The big problem now is that we are about to use up all our resources locally but the human population is so large that we now cover the whole world and there isn't anywhere for the new civilisation to take root after we have collapsed.

In the west, despite our industrial riches or possibly because of them, we had our population under control and reducing. Either the global South hasn't yet reached that critical level of wealth which triggers smaller family sizes or the patriarchs of the societies of the global south are still too intent on proving their masculinity by having large families.
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"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overpopulation is a consequence of industrialization........Overconsumerism is a consequence of industrialization.

Who started industrial revolution?

Who promoted/ forced industrialization in Asia, Africa and America after colonizing these continents and destroying the local cultures?


Human overpopulation is a consequence of industrialization........It took hundreds of thousands of years for human population to reach 1 billion in 1800 AD (even though most families had 5 - 15 children all over the world in pre-industrial societies) ........From 1 billion it jumped to over 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrial revolution despite drastic reduction in number of children per family........This happened because of modern medicine which drastically reduced the death rate by curing diseases caused by virus and bacteria........If man had continued living in agrarian stage, human population would have been less than 2 billion today and this planet would have been in very good condition.
......
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want everyone to get back to an agrarian society, possibly even hunter gatherer, just keep reproducing as you are and we'll be back to that level very soon, perhaps a hundred years or so.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's probably got 6 kids.
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