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New reports shows British electorate are socialists...

 
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Lord Beria3



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:26 pm    Post subject: New reports shows British electorate are socialists... Reply with quote

https://lif.blob.core.windows.net/lif/docs/default-source/default-library/1710-public-opinion-in-the-post-brexit-era-final.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Quote:

A clear picture is emerging of a public who are wary of the supposed benefits of free trade. They instinctively view capitalism negatively and question whether the current economic system can deliver for the country.

At a general level, they tend towards interventionist policy rather than free market ideals and, at a specific level, they favour state regulation in certain areas and nationalisation of key utilities. They actively want the government to intervene and curb the excesses of capitalism—whether those are senior executive pay, an uncontrolled housing market, zero hours contracts or the profits of big business—redirecting focus away from ‘profit above all else’ to something more socially beneficial.

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Little John



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most ordinary working class people are sensible, moderate socialists in economic terms and sensible, moderate conservatives in social terms. But, push them hard enough and they can become more extreme in either or both of these.

The reason mainstream politics is so upside down at the moment is because the forces of globalism are pushing people in directions that are, on the face of it, opposites to one another. Social globalism is pushing people to become more socially conservative. But, economic globalism is pushing them to socialism. At least in economic terms. But, the problem is, many mainstream socialist politicians are socially liberal globalists.

In short, the main thing driving sentiment in the mass of people is anti-globalism and, if the Left fail to provide an antidote to that in economic terms, then the Right surely will in social terms.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well put LJ. What you're describing is common denominator mass human behaviour, trammelled by forces they feel powerless against and it's nicely put.
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Lord Beria3



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Most ordinary working class people are sensible, moderate socialists in economic terms and sensible, moderate conservatives in social terms. But, push them hard enough and they can become more extreme in either or both of these.

The reason mainstream politics is so upside down at the moment is because the forces of globalism are pushing people in directions that are, on the face of it, opposites to one another. Social globalism is pushing people to become more socially conservative. But, economic globalism is pushing them to socialism. At least in economic terms. But, the problem is, many mainstream socialist politicians are socially liberal globalists.

In short, the main thing driving sentiment in the mass of people is anti-globalism and, if the Left fail to provide an antidote to that in economic terms, then the Right surely will in social terms.


+1

Have you considered the possibility the populist right will adopt socialist economic policies in the future? Le Pen's party have already done that but due to the historic baggage of her father and her NF she couldn't reach out to the majority.
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Little John wrote:
Most ordinary working class people are sensible, moderate socialists in economic terms and sensible, moderate conservatives in social terms. But, push them hard enough and they can become more extreme in either or both of these.

The reason mainstream politics is so upside down at the moment is because the forces of globalism are pushing people in directions that are, on the face of it, opposites to one another. Social globalism is pushing people to become more socially conservative. But, economic globalism is pushing them to socialism. At least in economic terms. But, the problem is, many mainstream socialist politicians are socially liberal globalists.

In short, the main thing driving sentiment in the mass of people is anti-globalism and, if the Left fail to provide an antidote to that in economic terms, then the Right surely will in social terms.


+1

Have you considered the possibility the populist right will adopt socialist economic policies in the future? Le Pen's party have already done that but due to the historic baggage of her father and her NF she couldn't reach out to the majority.


Yes they could re-brand deja vu as the National Socialist Workers Party easy peasy.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree too, LJ.

Free market capitalism is pushing us back to the Victorian era with all the horrors that that involves. It is even worse than that though because we don't have capitalism any more but corporatism where profits are privatised and losses are nationalised; socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor!

While wages are being globalised living costs, mortgage and rentals, are staying local. National politicians and builders are blaming high housing costs on the planning system but planners have to show a five year housing supply. National builders, meanwhile, have a virtual monopoly on the land supply and ration the number of houses that they build to keep supply tight and prices up.

Government, by restricting the supply of social housing, force people onto the private, uncontrolled rental market forcing prices up there as well and ensuring a good demand for buy to sell. The ordinary person is thus stuffed while the banker with his bonuses and every other city gent and land owning MP cashes in.

And they wonder why they are hated so!!
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Low wages force people to rent, so what do we do? Bring the rents down? No, pour taxpayers' money into owners' pockets.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Low wages force people to rent, so what do we do? Bring the rents down? No, pour taxpayers' money into owners' pockets.


The right to buy scheme is only on new houses so the money goes eventually into land owners' and bankers' pockets as land prices rise. Existing owners only profit when they downsize or their family profits, minus capital gains tax, when the owner dies.

Two interesting article from Money Morning

Quote:
Our politicians’ ideas for solving the housing crisis are staggeringly stupid

I’m reasonably convinced that the housing market lies at the heart of the vast majority of Britain’s current political woes.

We hear a lot about income inequality – but that’s nonsense. Income inequality has fallen in this country.

Property prices are a different kettle of fish. They're the most visible indicator of economic inequality and tension in our country. You either own it, or you don’t. You either benefited from the great property accumulator bet, or you didn’t. And most of that depends on a series of arbitrary events, such as where and when you were born.

Think either of our main political parties is going to make this better?

Not a chance...

How to bring house prices down quickly

Property disparity is the only part of the economy that can make a large chunk of the middle class feel like “have-nots”. They’re the ones who swing elections.

It’s the reason that you have high-earning, white-collar professionals who want to remain in the EU, willing to vote for an ardent Brexiteer in whose socialist paradise, most of them would be the first up against the wall.

So it’s little wonder that both parties want to be seen to be addressing the property problem. Trouble is, we’re well beyond the time for short-term fixes. And short-term fixes are all that politicians are capable of.

Here’s the basic problem: house prices are too high; renters can’t afford to buy; current owners can’t afford to upgrade because the cost per extra square foot is so high. The ability to buy is dictated far more by how much property you already own, or have owned, or that your parents own, than your income.

Our current situation is the inevitable result of encouraging people to take a series of rolling leveraged bets on the price of an income-producing asset over a period during which interest rates have been in secular decline.

Put more simply, as interest rates have fallen, the amount of money you can borrow to buy a house has soared. £500 a month will pay the interest on a lot more debt than it did 20 years ago.

That’s the fundamental reason house prices have gone up so sharply. And this is consistent across the globe. So everyone who imagines that high house prices are purely because “we’re a tiny island, stuffed full of people” really is missing the big picture.

Don’t get me wrong. I believe that there are features of the UK’s property market that make it unusually prone to bubbles and I’d like to unpack them another day when I have a spare six months to do the research.

But overall, if you really wanted to bring house prices down, the quickest way to do it is not to double the rate of house buying – it’s to push interest rates up to 7%.

Of course, you can’t do that. Banks love lending against property, because it’s a secured debt. If you don’t pay, they get your house. If you create a house price crash, bank balance sheets go bad, and you end up back where you were just after the 2008 crisis.

And that’s before you start counting the human cost in repossessions and job losses (because crashing prices and rising interest rates spell recession). However much we might want lower prices, we don’t want that.

It’s a complicated issue. It’s a right pickle. And it’s hugely damaging to our economy. Everyone becomes an interest-rate speculator. People delay starting families (mad as it seems). Labour mobility dries up. Every ounce of productive capital is diverted to an unproductive asset.

So what answers are our politicians coming up with?

Theresa May’s bright idea

The Tories have a great idea. First-time buyers can’t afford to buy houses because there’s too much money chasing houses. So why not give the first-time buyers more money to buy houses?

It really is that stupid. They’re blowing another £10bn on extending the help-to-buy scheme, which enables homebuyers to purchase a new-build property with a 5% deposit.

It’s as if they can’t grasp that if you add another £10bn-worth of property vouchers to the housing market, then all that will happen is that house prices will go up further.

They do have to be new-build houses, of course. But recent actions from house-builders suggest that they’ve used the scheme as a licence to take the proverbial out of desperate buyers and, of course, taxpayers.

In August, research from Alastair Stewart, a Stockdale Securities analyst and columnist for Property Week, revealed that help-to-buy properties had risen in price more rapidly than other properties. “Help-to-buy prices have delivered 10.6% CAGR since launch versus 7.0% for Land Registry average prices.”

Builders are increasingly dependent on the scheme. At many house-builders, help-to-buy properties account for between two-fifths and half of all sales. Overall, says Stewart, the scheme has “disproportionately inflated prices and delivered homes where they were less in demand”.

Worse still is the fact that builders have been selling many of these homes as leasehold properties. You can read all about that here: The scandal of newbuild houses sold as leasehold, here: How to buy your freehold, and here: Money-for-nothing clauses will have to go. But in short, it might look to a cynical person as though house builders see help-to-buy buyers as naive, desperate profit centres to be exploited badly for as long as they can get away with it.thinks it can control prices). And in the meantime, chances are that the situation will get worse before it gets better.

You can read the whole of this article on the MoneyWeek website


and Capital & Conflict

Quote:
The idea that all of economics comes down to land prices seems like an arcane one. Especially with the online world increasingly dominating the bricks and mortar of retail.

But it isn’t. Land is special. It’s different to the other factors of production in several important ways that you need to understand. And two recent developments make that painfully obvious.

Akhil Patel from Cycles, Trends and Forecasts sent over an email pointing out the first one. (I strongly suspect his speech at Friday’s conference will be on this general issue, which I’m looking forward to immensely.)

Welsh secretary Alun Cairns told the Tory party conference the following:

No other policy will have such an immediate impact on growing the economy in south Wales and the south west of England than our decision to abolish the tolls on the Severn crossings.

After 50 years of having to pay to enter Wales, I’m grateful to my Cabinet colleagues, particularly Chris Grayling who understood the significance of this policy.

The announcement has been one of my proudest moments as secretary of state. 25 million vehicles cross the bridges every year, with a cost of up to £20 a time.

Anyone living and working in south Wales, knows how important this.

Just think – no tolls, no booths, no charges, no long queues to get into Wales.

This decision will immediately boost the economy of south Wales by £100m a year.

And we all have something to offer that benefits the whole of the UK.


Sounds great, right? A win-win solution.

Unfortunately, things aren’t quite as they seem. None other than Winston Churchill explained why in 1909. It’s his example that says it best:

Some years ago in London there was a toll bar on a bridge across the Thames, and all the working people who lived on the south side of the river had to pay a daily toll of one penny for going and returning from their work.

The spectacle of these poor people thus mulcted of so large a proportion of their earnings offended the public con-science, and agitation was set on foot, municipal authorities were roused, and at the cost of the taxpayers, the bridge was freed and the toll removed.

All those people who used the bridge were saved sixpence a week, but within a very short time rents on the south side of the river were found to have risen about sixpence a week, or the amount of the toll which had been remitted!


And that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Economics is full of these examples. Where people mess with the price mechanism, they get beaten up.

Here’s another example of the same phenomenon from Churchill, applied to charitable giving:

And a friend of mine was telling me the other day that, in the parish of Southwark, about 350 pounds a year was given away in doles of bread by charitable people in connection with one of the churches.

As a consequence of this charity, the competition for small houses and single-room tenements is so great that rents are considerably higher in the parish!


Here’s the key point Churchill’s examples illustrate:

All goes back to the land, and the land owner is able to absorb to himself a share of almost every public and every private benefit, however important or however pitiful those benefits may be.


You can read Churchill’s full speech here.

What is it about land that allows it to capture the gains?

We’ll have to wait for Akhil’s speech to find out. But some of the reasons are clear.

The supply of land is restricted, so demand is the key. The inelasticity of supply means changes in demand turn into price changes accrued to the landowners. The economics of skyscrapers is fascinating because of this.

Not only is the supply of land restricted, but you can’t move land around. Land in Liverpool can’t move down to London where it can get a higher price. Liverpudlian labour and capital can.

The government has found ways to fiddle with these truths. It made them worse, of course.

Zoning laws, height restrictions and restrictions on the use of land are examples of how the government affects the supply of land. While they do so, the returns to landowners will always be elevated artificially. And that can lead to housing bubbles.

But all this also leads to predictable booms. If returns flow to land, then it’s not difficult to figure out where’s best to invest.

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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks k-l. I was thinking about rent subsidies for the low-waged.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way to go is to build a carefully monitored number of council or HA houses every year to keep house prices level for the indefinite future. That will drop private rental costs as well and hopefully stop the foreign "investment" in UK housing.
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