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Crypto-currencies - a discussion
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4104
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.palmbeachgroup.com/content/palm-beach-daily/teeka-tiwari-on-how-i-vastly-underestimated-bitcoin/38884/

I follow Teeka closely, a real crypto-currency expert, and it sounds like Wall Street will be joining the party big time in 2018.

Prices are likely to explode upwards.

Quote:
You’ve been talking about the tidal wave of money coming into cryptos all year.

Teeka: It’s not going to be a tidal wave… It’s going to be the biggest ocean of money in the history of the world.

And that money hasn’t even hit the markets yet. The opportunity in cryptos is just beginning.

But back to your question. Here’s why institutional demand is much bigger than I initially thought…

These institutional investors will be able to trade the new bitcoin futures contracts later this year. But that’s not the same as owning physical bitcoin. Right now, they can’t own bitcoin because of an issue called “custody.”

You see, these large funds can’t hold onto their own investments. Most of them have contracts that state a third party will hold onto their assets as a custodian. This rule is in place to protect investors from potential fraud.

So, these funds have institutions like Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs have “custody” of their investments.

There are no institutional-grade custodians for cryptocurrencies yet. They need that piece in place before they can put money to work in the actual bitcoin market.

Think about it being the difference between owning a futures contract on gold and actually owning gold bars.

A futures contract can be held in a brokerage account whereas a gold bar needs to be held in a physical vault. As I said, right now there are no bitcoin “vaults” approved for institutional use.

The good news is that will change next year. A slew of new companies is rising up to meet the custody challenge.

Once custody is in place, the stage will be set for institutions to trade in the physical bitcoin market. And when that happens, billions—or even trillions—of dollars will be flowing into the space.

And I hope everyone has an allocation to bitcoin before this money flows in. The move is going to be huge.

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Mr. Fox



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 491
Location: In the Dark

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick Falkvinge, Pirate Party founder and one of the folk behind VPN provider 'PrivateInternetAccess' had this to say regarding Bitcoin:

Quote:
Around 2014, a couple of people hijacked Bitcoin, for all intents and purposes, stripped the original known coder (Gavin Andresen) of his coding access privileges, and set out in a new direction.

Bitcoin transactions should cost money, they decided, a lot of money, because the network wasn’t sustainable otherwise (nevermind that it had worked just fine up until that point with subcent optional transactions, and was planned to do so for another 140 years).

The company was called Blockstream, and they were met with such fierce opposition from the community, they literally had to start deleting every post off the bitcoin forums (bitcointalk, Reddit’s /r/bitcoin, and the mailing list) that challenged the narrative that it was utterly moronic to deliberately congest the network to make it slow, unreliable, and expensive.


Quote:
What’s new on the scene in 2017 is something called a US Dollar Tether.

You see, you can’t buy big quantities of bitcoin — which is more or less “Blockstream stock” at this point — directly, not in amounts of millions of US Dollars. So this thing called Tether popped up, where a company named Tether claimed to issue US Dollar Tether, where one Tether was supposed to be good for exactly one US dollar.

Today, the bitcoin price (the price of something that is unreliable, slow, and expensive, and which nobody uses anymore for anything remotely practical) isn’t driven up by people buying it for US Dollars anymore, but by institutions buying it for large amounts of Tether, which is “kind-of-dollars-but-not-really-but-we-still-pretend-so”.

The company Tether insists that they have backing; every Tether has a US Dollar backing it. There has been no proof to this. There have just been regular conjurings-up of new batches of ten, twenty, thirty million Tethers — not US Dollars, but Tethers — that are spent pushing up the bitcoin price as though the Tethers were dollars, and this happens basically every time the Blockstream PR machine happens to need a little boost.

Maybe the Tethers are backed by dollars on a one-to-one ratio, as is asserted and refused to be proven. Maybe they aren’t. Sure as hell doesn’t look like they are.

This whole story reeks of a lot of people going to a lot of prison in a few years
.

falkvinge.net

Also, Dmitry Orlov's recent piece on crypto-currencies echos many of the sentiments expressed on this thread: Cryptomania
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting that bubble feeling right now... everybody seems to have started buying bitcoin and other cryptos at work and among social friends. Only a few months ago it I could count them, including me, on one hand.

I'm selling enough of my profits so that my "deposit" is returned in cash today/tomorrow.

If the whole house of cards collapses, as some predict (including Mr Greer), then I haven't lost a penny.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A tour de force, 5 part essay from TAE contributor Dr D - all in one:

TAE: Bitcoin doesn't Exist - The Full Story

A real kicker, right at the end:

Quote:
And that’s my real reservation. Suppose Bitcoin works. Suppose it replaces currency. Suppose it is adequately private. Suppose it can be made fast enough, cheap enough, and slim enough. Suppose the old system fades and we all get used to having our lives entirely on the Blockchain. Your every post is perfectly recorded and provably yours on Steemit. Your every photograph is saved and stamped to you. Every medical experience is indelibly written. Every purchase, every trade, it’s all on a blockchain somewhere. And even suppose it’s private. What then? I mean, isn’t this the system we had in 1900, under the former society and former gold standard? So what happened?

Being comfortable and familiar with Blockchain ledgers, taking them as for granted as Millennials do Facebook, and someone says, “Hey, rather than waste power on this inefficient, creaking system of writing everywhere for a fraction of the power the Federal Reserve Block can keep it for you. Think of the whales.” Sound silly? That’s exactly what they did in 1913, and again in 1933 – replace a direct, messy, competitive system with a more efficient one run by smarter men. The people didn’t protest then any more than they do now, so why would we expect them to in 2050 or 2070? No one cares about corruption and murder: we’re only moving to this system now because it’s better and cheaper. If the Fed Reserve Block is cheaper, won’t we move then?



I can’t solve the next generation’s problems. We’ll be lucky to survive our own. But I can warn you that even now this generation will never accept a digital mark without which you cannot buy or sell, not voluntarily and not by force. It’s too far to reach and social trust is too compromised. But could they get us halfway there and just make it official later, when everything’s fixed again? I think absolutely.

Once that’s in, you can finish all the plans written in the bank and government white papers: perfect, inescapable taxation. Perfect, indelible records of everyone you talked to, everything you said, everything you bought, everywhere you were, everyone you know. Not today, but in the future. And that is the purgatory or paradise they seek today. The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance. The system we have wasn’t always bad: a small cadre of bad men worked tirelessly while complacent citizens shirked their duty. So when we move to a new system softly, without real purge, real morality, real reform, what makes you think the same thing won’t happen to your new system? Only far, far more dangerous. But I can’t prevent that. Think, and plan accordingly.


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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone tell me who gets all this money going into Bitcoin? Sounds like a good scam to me!
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is to sell what you buy to someone before the price dives down. It is like a game of musical chairs. At some point most of the chairs are removed and a few people can end up winning.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..............and most people lose. Some lose everything they have, some lose far more than that.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
some lose far more than that.

Hopefully no-one has borrowed any money to bet on bitcoin, but often people do.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s wishful thinking. Those people will have been “investing” not betting. One thing history teaches us is we don’t learn from history.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
One thing history teaches us is we don’t learn from history.

Some people do, some people don't.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
woodburner wrote:
some lose far more than that.

Hopefully no-one has borrowed any money to bet on bitcoin, but often people do.


People are taking out mortgages to buy bitcoin, says securities regulator:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/people-are-taking-out-mortgages-to-buy-bitcoin-says-joseph-borg.html
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