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Timetable set to phase out high-energy light bulbs
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Did anyone ever do any work on the health problems with incandescents? SAD for instance? Or even on gas or oil lamps? CO poisoning?

Perhaps anything other than sun light is less good for us.


When electric lighting was a new idea, it was compared unfavourably to gas lighting. Some felt that such bright lighting was unhealthy in various ways.
In particular, one theory held that electric light would mimic daylight and thereby "wear out the eyes or brain more quickly" And remember that was with 16 candle power carbon filament lamps that give a dim and yellow light by todays standards.

Electric light was generally accepted to be safer than gas, though this took a while !
Gas carried risks of CO poisoning and explosions, oil lamps and candles were a fire risk.

"Whilst it is true that gas lighting is now being challenged by our competitors, it is the duty of everyone in the gas industry to ensure that gas lighting remains in use, and that gas is given due consideration for new housing schemes. Every gas light lost is an electric light gained, and every extra electric light is a chance for our competitors to sell electricity at inflated prices for lighting, and thereby subsidise electricity sold for heating and cooking, which as we all know are done better and cheaper by gas.
Only gas is sold at the same low, affordable price, to anyone to use for any purpose."

From a gas industry text book issued just before WW2 ! the gas industry fought long and hard. But reluctantly admitted defeat over lighting.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Did anyone ever do any work on the health problems with incandescents? SAD for instance? Or even on gas or oil lamps? CO poisoning?

Perhaps anything other than sun light is less good for us.


Yes, Wunsch has done some work on health effects of incandescent lighting and recommends low voltage d.c. halogen bulbs run so the red end of the spectrum is dominant. There have not been any cases of CO poisoning as far as I know caused by using incandescent bulbs.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High CRI LED lamps have a spectrum that is very similar to incandescent lamps. Go for CRIs of 95 or even 98 and it's basically like using incandescent light.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
All we need to do now is get rid of those pointless decorative incandescent bulbs!


In London I'm finding that more and more the decorative hipster bulbs are LEDs. I wouldn't be surprised if the incandescent ones disappear in the next few years and I'm quite comfortable with decorative lighting if it's LED - it doesn't all need to be strictly functional.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
As an aside;

The majority of lighting is used in domestic settings.

The majority of the time when lighting is used it is dark.

The time of the year when it is most dark is in the winter.

Winter is the time when some form of domestic heating is used the most.

Most domestic heating, nowadays, is thermostatically controlled.

All of the above being the case, the lowered "excess" heat that is being generated by more "efficient" lighting as compared to that generated by "less efficient" lighting is, to some extent, going to be offset by heating systems consequently having to take up the thermal slack.

Now, I am guessing one retort to the above is that the heat involved is so minimal as to be negligible in terms of the extra energy load on domestic heating systems.

Which, if true, begs the question of why it was worth all the bother of trying to save this "negligible" amount of energy given out as heat from our lighting systems?


The heat replacement effect is very real and should be taken into account when estimating savings. The HRE for lighting is quite modest though (ceilings aren't the best location for your heat source!) and in my view it's best to optimise everything as far as possible - make your lighting as efficient as possible and leave your heating to your heating system.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding to Pepperman's post above, the electricity is generated at max 60%, often 33%, efficiency at most at the moment whereas gas heating is provided at about 90% efficiency.

The heat may be negligible on the gas loading but the amount of excess, more expensively generated electricity used is considerable.

A lot of offices are lit 24/7/365 although they usually use fluorescent tubes and a reduction here by the use of LEDs would have a significant effect.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be noted that most areas of most large office blocks need cooling even in winter.
Energy wasted by lighting therefore adds to cooling costs even in winter.

The larger the building, the less heating is needed and the more cooling is needed if other factors remain unaltered.

The energy saving by replacing fluorescent tubes with LEDs is modest if compared to that achieved by replacing incandescent lamps with LEDs.
Still very worthwhile though in view of the often longer hours of use, and saving in air conditioning costs.

It wont be long until fluorescent light fittings go out of production.
Replacement fluorescent tubes should be available for some years yet at least in the more common sizes.

I doubt that we will EVER see fluorescent lamps better than those available today. It is a dying industry in which no significant funds will be spent on R+D.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
It should be noted that most areas of most large office blocks need cooling even in winter.
Energy wasted by lighting therefore adds to cooling costs even in winter.

The larger the building, the less heating is needed and the more cooling is needed if other factors remain unaltered.

The energy saving by replacing fluorescent tubes with LEDs is modest if compared to that achieved by replacing incandescent lamps with LEDs.
Still very worthwhile though in view of the often longer hours of use, and saving in air conditioning costs.

It wont be long until fluorescent light fittings go out of production.
Replacement fluorescent tubes should be available for some years yet at least in the more common sizes.

I doubt that we will EVER see fluorescent lamps better than those available today. It is a dying industry in which no significant funds will be spent on R+D.
Can not winter time cooling be accomplished by increasing ventilation? I realize that high rise windows don't open but there has to be an inlet and outlet opening for the ventilation system somewhere.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To an extent, yes winter cooling can be achieved by outside air and this is sometimes done, it finds little favour though.
The default choice is a fixed volume of fresh air that that is heated or cooled as needed to maintain a supply air temperature of 20 degrees in the winter and 18 degrees in the summer.
Localised heating or cooling is provided by fan coil units that use heated or chilled water to warm or cool the room air. In many large buildings only the perimeter fan coil units (those near windows, outside doors, or on the top floor) are equipped to heat the room air, so as to make up for heat lost to the outside.
Fan coil units in inner areas that are not subject to heat loss are often cooling only.

This sets a definite lower limit to the acceptable supply air temperature.
Consider an inner office intended for a dozen workers, but used only by one person. With little heat input from but one person and probably a single PC the room would become uncomfortably cool at perhaps 22.5 degrees.
Any reduction in the supply air temperature to below 22 degrees is unlikely to be acceptable.
Meanwhile another similar office intended for a dozen people but actually occupied by 14 persons would soon become too hot without the fan coil units cooling the room air, and thereby consuming a lot of electricity to run the chiller.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
To an extent, yes winter cooling can be achieved by outside air and this is sometimes done, it finds little favour though.
The default choice is a fixed volume of fresh air that that is heated or cooled as needed to maintain a supply air temperature of 20 degrees in the winter and 18 degrees in the summer.
Localised heating or cooling is provided by fan coil units that use heated or chilled water to warm or cool the room air. In many large buildings only the perimeter fan coil units (those near windows, outside doors, or on the top floor) are equipped to heat the room air, so as to make up for heat lost to the outside.
Fan coil units in inner areas that are not subject to heat loss are often cooling only.

This sets a definite lower limit to the acceptable supply air temperature.
Consider an inner office intended for a dozen workers, but used only by one person. With little heat input from but one person and probably a single PC the room would become uncomfortably cool at perhaps 22.5 degrees.
Any reduction in the supply air temperature to below 22 degrees is unlikely to be acceptable.
Meanwhile another similar office intended for a dozen people but actually occupied by 14 persons would soon become too hot without the fan coil units cooling the room air, and thereby consuming a lot of electricity to run the chiller.

I would think a bit of engineering could improve on that considerably. Outside air at -15 or lower coming in and run through a heat exchanger with fan speeds and louver openings adjusted to deliver fresh air at the desired +20 without the expense and energy use of compressor coils. When electricity becomes dear enough in price, innovation will occur.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree, and some innovation is already occurring, but the great majority of systems work as I describe.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Agree, and some innovation is already occurring, but the great majority of systems work as I describe.
Oh no doubt as the equipment is already in place and it is simply a matter of setting the thermostats. Seems a waste though to have a furnace working in the basement and an AC unit working on the top floor at the same time.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From next month, September 2018, the manufacture or import of more types of high energy lamps is to be prohibited.

The main types affected are most mains voltage halogen lamps including.
All common type of mains voltage reflector lamp, including PAR 30, PAR 38, GU10, and similar.
All common types of mains voltage halogen that incorporate an inner halogen bulb within an outer bulb, includes GLS, candle shape, golf ball and most others.

Linear halogen types are permitted for now, subject to being of improved efficiency types.
Reduced voltage halogen lamps, usually 12 volt, are permitted for now, again subject to being of improved efficiency.

Also to be banned are most types of smaller compact fluorescent, although these give a significant saving over incandescent, they still use up to twice the energy of LEDs.

As with previous bans, only manufacture or import is prohibited, existing stocks may be used or sold without concerns.
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