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Assange Watch
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2162

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Nobody believe you, John. Not even you.
Are you really trying to deny that he was wandering around the UK whilst his case about extradition to Sweden went through the levels of courts.

If the USA had wanted to extradite him the time to apply for this was whilst he was trying to avoid doing to Sweden.

Let us understand the issue that is supposed to give rise to a secret threat of extradition from Sweden. The issue is about the publication of material leaked by the USA military member now called Chelsea Manning who is not in prison because of being pardoned by Obama.

I accept that the situation is now more threatening because of Trump. However, it really cannot be the situation that the person who only put the material on the internet was more at fault according to the US system than the person who actually leaked the material from the military.

He should have left the embassy before Trump came into power. I have not looked at the details sufficiently since them to have a proper view as to what the US might do. It is considerably less predicatable.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8695
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know is this: Assange is not holed up in that embassy because he's scared of anything else but being hauled in front of a US kangaroo court and being made an example of "this is what happens to people who publish leaked information about US war crimes". It is a display of brute political force, designed to send a singular message: "America controls the world. Mess with us, and we will fuck you up. Forget international law, or morality; we can fuck you up, and that is what we will do."

The rest is irrelevant.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2162

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
All I know is this:

That is your belief.

I think Assange made a misjudgment when he went into the embassy from being at liberty in the UK.

We have now moved on and I accept that Trump is more of a threat to him. How much more is another issue and I am not inclined to research this.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1570

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pilger: The isolation of Julian Assange is the silencing of us all
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the game is over. He has to leave the embassy now, and try to use judicial process, public pressure and social media to avoid ending up like Chelsea Manning. There's not much point in him spending the rest of his life in solitary confinement, unable to communicate with the outside world, denied even access to basic healthcare. In effect, if he chooses that path, the US has won. But if he comes out, and the US ends up seriously mistreating him, he will go down in history as a martyr for the cause of free speech, whistleblowing and the fight against US tyranny. There's all sorts of ways he can play this. They can't just bundle him into a plane and deliver him to Washington. There has to be an extradition procedure, and the world will be watching very carefully indeed. He's already been declared a political prisoner by the UN.

Either way, without the good will and co-operation of the government of Ecuador, this phase of the game is over.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus he must also have access to mountains of additional damaging information that he can use as leverage against those who want to punish him. That leverage is useless to him where he is now.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2162

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
to avoid ending up like Chelsea Manning.

Chelsea Manning was pardoned by Obama. I don't think Trump would pardon Assange. (who probably has 1st amendment protection anyway, however).
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 672
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest he wears butyl gloves if he goes shopping, or eating at Zizis..
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
to avoid ending up like Chelsea Manning.

Chelsea Manning was pardoned by Obama. .


...eventually.

There is no doubt that some elements in the US would want to see him punished camp-X-ray-style, but I there's a serious risk that if they tried to do this, it would backfire on them badly. That's assuming the legal process in the UK would actually deliver him into their hands, and I have no idea whether or not this is the case.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should all be under no illusions, by now, the the "legal processes" we have hitherto come to rely upon as setting a limit on state actions, to the extent they ever really existed, are gone now.

The gloves are off, the veil has been lifted and no outcome is discountable.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14044
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
He has to leave the embassy now […] There's not much point in him spending the rest of his life in solitary confinement, unable to communicate with the outside world, denied even access to basic healthcare. In effect, if he chooses that path, the US has won.


That's it in a nutshell UE. He has to walk out.

If I was there when he walked out, I would join any other supporters in what would most likely be a vain attempt to surround and protect him.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
We should all be under no illusions, by now, the the "legal processes" we have hitherto come to rely upon as setting a limit on state actions, to the extent they ever really existed, are gone now.

The gloves are off, the veil has been lifted and no outcome is discountable.


Very hard to predict, but there's definitely a risk for his tormentors that the more badly they treat him, the worse will be the outcome for them too. He's not an enemy combatant, and he's not even a US citizen who has broken a US law. For the US to illegally detain and punish a person recognised by the UN as a political prisoner would go well beyond anything the US has previously done. Similarly, if he suffered some unusual "accident" the same would apply - too many people would be waiting for it to happen. I think the political price the US would pay would be too high even for them.

It seems more likely that they'll try to find some way to shut him up that doesn't involve incarcerating him, if that is possible. Their best bet is to try to minimise the future damage he can do, perhaps by offering to leave him alone if he agrees to shut up.
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not that sort of person though. 'Agrees to shut up'? I hope not. Very Happy
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14044
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing about the US is that a POTUS has already 'forgiven' him as such by agreeing not to prosecute Wikileaks.

Trump of course would like to have his own alternative facts.
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"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5853
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Little John wrote:
We should all be under no illusions, by now, the the "legal processes" we have hitherto come to rely upon as setting a limit on state actions, to the extent they ever really existed, are gone now.

The gloves are off, the veil has been lifted and no outcome is discountable.


Very hard to predict, but there's definitely a risk for his tormentors that the more badly they treat him, the worse will be the outcome for them too. He's not an enemy combatant, and he's not even a US citizen who has broken a US law. For the US to illegally detain and punish a person recognised by the UN as a political prisoner would go well beyond anything the US has previously done. Similarly, if he suffered some unusual "accident" the same would apply - too many people would be waiting for it to happen. I think the political price the US would pay would be too high even for them.

It seems more likely that they'll try to find some way to shut him up that doesn't involve incarcerating him, if that is possible. Their best bet is to try to minimise the future damage he can do, perhaps by offering to leave him alone if he agrees to shut up.
The British ruling class has been holding him as a political prisoner for years on behalf of its Yank master. That same British ruling class is currently engaged in a false flag with two Russians, one of which is a Russian citizen. - effectively holding them hostage - denied access to consular services and, in the case of the daughter, denied access to even extended family members who wish to visit her. Meanwhile, the Yanks are currently digging in with bases in Syria in direct contravention of the wishes of the Syrian state and in direct contravention of any international rules. and, in the last few days, a blatent false flag in the form of yet another "chemical attack by the Syrian state" is being perpetrated by the Yanks and their cover on the ground the "white helmets". Simultaneously, the Israelis have used this as a pretext to shell Syrian government positions.

Anything is now possible. We are in a different world to the one that (allegedly) operated on "rules".
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