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Russia Watch
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5396
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump dumping Rex Tillerson hours after he backed UK claims of Russian guilt does not bode well for us backing any effective sanctions. Putin was trump's role model for his propaganda style,. The timing of this attack was to boost Putin's domestic ratings and hard man reputation ahead of his re-election. Nobody, not even the Russian people believe Russian denials of responsibility.

As noted here, we are unlikely to do more that symbolic sanctions because of dependence on Russian energy, and too many fingers in the pie among the kleptocatic elements of the UK government.

There is little to choose between the three world powers these days, they are all equally corrupt, and none of them will allow ideology get in the way of profits.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What utter bullshit, There is no evidence whatsoever for this being done by Russia. you just made that shit up.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4857
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
What utter bullshit, There is no evidence whatsoever for this being done by Russia. you just made that shit up.

Who else has motive?
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5396
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
What utter bullshit, There is no evidence whatsoever for this being done by Russia. you just made that shit up.

Precisely the response I knew you would type.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 792
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We aren't going to apply any practical sanctions on Russia. The UK has nothing that the Russian govt needs, and the economy of the SE and the 650 useless eaters in govt is based upon grovelling to Russsian and Arab gangsters to buy property:

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/qkq4bx/every-flat-in-a-new-south-london-development-has-been-sold-to-foreign-investors

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/son-of-thatchers-right-to-buy-housing-minister-now-owns-40-ex-council-homes/
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6218
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Little John wrote:
What utter bullshit, There is no evidence whatsoever for this being done by Russia. you just made that shit up.

Precisely the response I knew you would type.
So... Evidence?
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2160

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
So... Evidence?

Motive
Access to specific nerve agent.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1651

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
Little John wrote:
So... Evidence?

Motive
Access to specific nerve agent.


Porton Down is just 8 miles up the road.
Isn't that the home of the largest chemical and biological testing site in Europe?

WRT motive - would Putin have really wanted a former double crossing agent bumped off in such a manner? Particularly as he faces midterm elections next week? Highly unlikely - Skripal was part of a spy swap in 2010 having previously been convicted for espionage. Skripal had plenty of enemies who would like to have seen him bumped off.

Does the UK Government benefit from this?
All they have managed to do thus far is to whip up anti-Russia hysteria and that's about it.
Theresa May has a tenuous grip on power. She is taking this as an opportunity to play to the galleries and show that Britain still has clout on the world stage. Actually what she is doing, particularly to the non-Anglo world, is demonstrating the complete opposite. She is showing herself to be shallow and egotistical, not bothering to find out what is actually going on but to stick to some BS narrative.

What will be deafening here will be the silence that will follow. The same silence that surrounded the Litvinenko death, MH-17 and now this. If there was any evidence, that would stand up in a Court of Law, that would implicate Russia in any of these, we would have heard about it by now. We have not - therefore we should reject these claims.

Anyway, here is Dmitry Orlov's take on it: False Flags for Newbies
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1651

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another one for the motive cause: Israel.

Craig Murray wrote:
Israel has the nerve agents. Israel has Mossad which is extremely skilled at foreign assassinations. Theresa May claimed Russian propensity to assassinate abroad as a specific reason to believe Russia did it. Well Mossad has an even greater propensity to assassinate abroad. And while I am struggling to see a Russian motive for damaging its own international reputation so grieviously, Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation so grieviously. Russian action in Syria has undermined the Israeli position in Syria and Lebanon in a fundamental way, and Israel has every motive for damaging Russia’s international position by an attack aiming to leave the blame on Russia.


Craig Murray: Russian to judgement
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1651

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An effective takedown of the media hysteria:

Rob Slane: Sergei Skripal, Salisbury and the dangerously hysterical response of the British Government

Rob Slane wrote:
What I would like to comment on, though, is what can only be described as the irrational, hysterical and frankly propagandistic reaction of the British media and Government. Within hours of the incident, before any of the essential facts can have been known to them, many of them came out and either implicitly or explicitly pointed the finger at the Kremlin and Vladimir Putin as having ordered the assassination.

And today, the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, after just one week of what is bound to be an intensely complex investigation, in which the authorities have not yet ascertained where, when and how the poison was administered, went to the House of Commons to blame the incident on a sovereign state, reversing the burden of proof by informing the Government of Russia that it has 36 hours to effectively prove its innocence, or it will be assumed guilty.

I am thoroughly ashamed of the Government of my country and indeed Parliament (not for the first time, and probably not the last). Whether or not Mr Putin was behind the attack, this is simply not how a law-governed state goes about its business. The sheer speed at which fingers have been pointed, accusations made, and threats uttered, before any facts arose as to where, when and how the poison was administered, let alone who administered it, shows that as a nation we are closer to becoming the kind of state that we claim Mr Putin heads than we would like to imagine

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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10581
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
....Anyway, here is Dmitry Orlov's take on it: False Flags for Newbies


Every one of Orlov's arguments works just as well the other way. I didn't know he was such an apologist for Putin. I'll be very circumspect about his writing in future.
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As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.


Last edited by kenneal - lagger on Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14291
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russian gas, who needs it? Laughing
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6218
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so let's break this down shall we.

Russia's top assassin

Okay boss, so how do you want me to eliminate Skripal:

Car accident?
Falling off a building?
Choke on a hard-boiled egg?
Knifed in a fake robbery?

Commander

No. Use a highly toxic substance that can be easily traced back to Russia.
Oh... and do it in broad daylight and in a public area.

Laughing
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6218
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Russia wanted to kill off an old double agent, they clearly would not do so in such a visible and cack-handed way. If the British authorities had evidence of Russia having done this, there would have been complete diplomatic meltdown long before now. It's bullshit from start to finish and I am going to speculate that this is a black-op by the British and larger western establishment as part of the on-going "Russia-did-it" bullshit propaganda narrative. Which is, itself, part of the wider and ever more desperate death throes of a dying, Western, Yank-led empire.

We live in very dangerous times.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10581
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an election coming up and a hard man wants to be seen as hard and thumbing his nose at the West. He recently made a speech about the West and UK in particular not being a safe place for dissidents. The very public death of an ex Russian spy will put off anyone in Russia who thinks that it is a good idea to get rid of Putin from thinking that they can say anything nasty about him and get away with it even by claiming asylum.
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As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.
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