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Moneyweek claiming we need all the immigrants we can get

 
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Moneyweek claiming we need all the immigrants we can get Reply with quote

Unfortunately the article is for subscribers only but here's my reply

Quote:
A wave of new immigrants will depress the already depressed wages of the indigenous population, the indidge, who will therefore have even less to spend than they have now. It will put an upward pressure on housing and rental costs which will depress even further the spending power of the indidge. Building more housing for sale will not help as house prices are too high to be affordable and the governmentís subsidy scheme is sending them higher.

New housing for sale may suite those city *ankers with more money than they should have but it wonít stave off the recessionary pressure of depressed wages. The country should be increasing the minimum wage because those on the minimum wage have to spend all their money: building more houses for renting by Housing Associations paid for by printed money: insulating our housing to a standard that will reduce heating bills by at least 80% and paying for it with printed money: reduce the proportion of the available money that the top earners are receiving. This would increase the money that can be spent into the real economy and reduce the recessionary pressure.

Giving more money to those who already have more than enough is just fueling the bubble in the stock market and the city in general. This money is then lost to the general economy and stokes the recessionary fires. We all have got to learn that a capitalist system canít work if a majority of the people donít have money to spend.

The top 1% who have hogged all the money are putting it into bits of paper in the city because they canít get a return on it in the general economy because they have hogged all the money that is required to give them a return. Those bits of paper in which they ďinvestĒ are hidden away from the general economy and might as well not exist at all as far as the majority of people are concerned.

Money must circulate to be of any use and making money from money in the financial market doesnít do any good either. Itís just a huge Ponzi scheme. Printed money must be invested in capital items that produce employment otherwise it is just wasted, as the £320 billion that the BOE has already printed has been.


I then added this

Quote:
I forgot to mention all the money that is removed from our economy by the immigrants who send it home to support their families left behind. They might earn money here but they spend as little of it here as possible.


I'll be interested to see if there are any responses.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Moneyweek claiming we need all the immigrants we can get Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:


Quote:
I forgot to mention all the money that is removed from our economy by the immigrants who send it home to support their families left behind. They might earn money here but they spend as little of it here as possible.


This is of course fairly straightforward to analyse with conventional economic tools. Spending £s on a non-UK EU citizen to do work in the UK has a similar effect to spending on an imported good or service. Except that a substantial part of the wage does get spent within the UK. And except for the fact that the foreign worker does not earn all of the cost of the good or service provided since his/her UK boss takes a cut as profit, as opposed to the foreign boss in the case of imported goods and service. And except for the fact that the worker is taxed in the UK, as opposed to being taxed abroad in the case of worker who provided imported goods and services from abroad.

Now don't go thinking that I think this is a good idea, but the economic case, if what you want is the UK to have a higher GDP, even a higher per capita GDP, favours inviting every worker in the whole world to come and crowd into the UK and work here. If they send 90% of their wages home, the UK economy would still be healthier.

If you want to limit immigration, don't try using an economic argument. It will backfire.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile the reason there is mass immigration is not because of war or poverty elswhere, it is because of the economic benefit to the people trafficers who sell the picture of a dream life in Europe.

The covert information about immigration
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Little John



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason there is currently the biggest mass migration of humans across the globe (largely from equatorial regions to more temperate ones) is due to the four horsemen of climate change, ecological degradation in the form of the biggest mass extinction event since the end of the Permian, peak industrial resources and, beneath even these three, because it is the driver of all of it - a massive global human population overshoot.

Everything else, including all of the politics, is details.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another factor and that is the total corruption of most African politics.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
There is another factor and that is the total corruption of most African politics.
African politics is as African politics was.

It is a secondary exacerbator. It is not a primary cause. In other words, it is part of the details.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a major driver of poverty on the continent. Someone did some research a few years (decades?) ago on the differences between Asian Commonwealth countries and those in Africa trying to find the causes of the disparity in wealth between the two groups. Their major finding was the corruption which stripped the wealth from African countries. Then there's the inter tribal infighting, wars ....

And some people wonder why there's a constant stream of migrants coming from sub Saharan Africa.
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Little John



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of these would be issues if (a) there had not been an industrial revolution leading to a global industrial civilization of 7 billion and rising and (b) global warming and ecological degradation as a consequence of (a).
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Meanwhile the reason there is mass immigration is not because of war or poverty elswhere, it is because of the economic benefit to the people trafficers who sell the picture of a dream life in Europe.

The covert information about immigration


I finally got round to listening to the video and it makes many of the points which we have been making here over the years. That includes the fact that the population of Europeans is dropping with the fall in birthrate and these migrants are being bought in to replace us at the expense of their home economies. It's a sort of reverse colonialism: Europe supporting its own economy at the expense of the third world again. We are bringing third world workers to Europe to exploit them rather than exploiting them at home.
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"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
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