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Brexit process
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 101
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Ignore the noise from the MSM.


Fine ignore the MSM.

7 days ago i was a delegate at the Hilton Hotel, Liverpool. The event was paid for by HSE's chemicals regulation directorate (Whitehall civil service).

Subject? Leaving the EU with no deal.

The main point i took away from the sessions was the statement that the HSE chemicals dept has been planning for a no deal since one hour after the referendum vote.

The reasoning was simple. If we get a deal it will be by agreement. Therefore every detail will have been agreed. No surprises.

If there is no deal. Then we have to replicate the EU agencies into UK law.

This is what the government is telling the chemical industry to prepare for. No deal.

So LB, you carry on telling your readers to prepare for flaccid brexit. I'm telling my clients to prepare for no deal.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8828
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6042765/EU-offer-UK-stay-single-market-goods-without-free-movement.html

Quote:

Brussels 'prepares a Brexit climbdown and is set to agree the UK can stay in the EU single market for goods without having to accept free movement'

Theresa May has been holding talks with EU leaders to get support for Chequers

EU is said to be considering the move - but will demand its own concessions

Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world



Same story in Express: https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1001116/brexit-news-latest-live-update-theresa-may-michel-barnier-european-union
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 4260
Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course government have been preparing for no deal! It would be folly not too.

The DM report, if accurate, confirms my own prediction, that EU will agree to a semi-soft Brexit along the lines of May's plans.

It's a game-changing moment.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1022
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "


Rolling Eyes Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4752
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "


Rolling Eyes Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7812

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:
" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "


Rolling Eyes Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?


It's not so much a case of the UK wanting to produce a product that doesn't meet EU regs, but rather some people, some farmers for example may want to cut costs by lowering animal welfare standards below those allowed within the EU.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8828
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:
" Wants the UK to to stick to environmental and social rules even after Brexit

This would undermine the UK's ability to strike free trade deals around the world "


Rolling Eyes Really would it? The sheer quality of Mail hacks writing.

Could you give an example of a product that the UK would like to produce for domestic consumption or export that doesn't meet the current EU regulations?


It's not so much a case of the UK wanting to produce a product that doesn't meet EU regs, but rather some people, some farmers for example may want to cut costs by lowering animal welfare standards below those allowed within the EU.


That would be a deeply unpopular policy in the UK.
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1022
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it also means some people may want to cut costs by lowering employment costs below those allowed within the EU.

Now that would be unpopular.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 101
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
It's a game-changing moment.


It certainly is.

As I write there is a large ship sailing to the UK from China, with inter alia, 150 tonnes of chemical for a UK customer. That customer usually gets monthly deliveries JIT from Germany by Road.

If this shipment goes to plan without hitches in quality, storage, process issues, then the business will change to a twice yearly deliveries from China.

Brexit is changing the game already. An EU business will probably lose a UK customer in perpetuity.

Whose fault is this? the UK's for voting Brexit? The EU's for being intransigent?
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8828
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so here's a question about "products banned in the EU" and "lowered food standards. I came across this somewhat hysterical article in the Independent:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-meat-banned-eu-australia-beef-liam-fox-dit-friends-of-the-earth-a8475006.html

Quote:

Among the meat products suggested for export to the UK are hormone-treated beef and “burnt goat heads”.


Hormone treated beef? I wouldn't want to eat it, personally. But provided it is labelled as such, I don't understand why there's a problem with giving other people the choice to eat it. I can't imagine it would be that much cheaper than non-hormone-treated beef that hasn't been shipped from the other side of the planet.

But it was the burnt goat heads that caught my eye. Clearly this is designed to provoke an irrational emotional reaction in people. But in this case, it doesn't even have to be labelled, since nobody is likely to mistake a goat head for anything else. But why burnt goat heads? Turns out this is one of those things that was traditionally eaten by peasants, but then became an exotic delicacy in many parts of the world. In fact, they are highly rated in non-EU Norway...although traditionally the Norwegians ate burnt sheep heads, and these are now deemed a scrapie risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalahove

Quote:

Smalahove (also called smalehovud, sau(d)ehau(d) or skjelte) is a Western Norwegian traditional dish made from a sheep's head, originally eaten before Christmas.[1] The name of the dish comes from the combination of the Norwegian words hove and smale. Hove is a dialectal form of hovud, meaning head (cf. Hǫfuð), and smale is a word for sheep, so Smalahove literally means sheep head.[2][3] The skin and fleece of the head is torched, the brain removed, and the head is salted, sometimes smoked, and dried. The head is boiled or steamed for about three hours, and is served with mashed rutabaga and potatoes. It is also traditionally served with Akvavit.[4] In some preparations, the brain is cooked inside the skull and then eaten with a spoon or fried.[5] Originally, smalahove was typically eaten by the poor, but today it is considered a delicacy.


I am struggling to understand what the actual problem is. Burnt goats heads? Bring 'em on. Maybe I'm just more into exotic food that some people, but I think this is a fuss about nothing.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3720

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is the unscrupulous operaters in the food industry obtain products then put them on the market without telling people the facts. The fact they are interested in is the amount of profit.
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careful_eugene



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 477
Location: Nottingham UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:


Hormone treated beef? I wouldn't want to eat it, personally. But provided it is labelled as such, I don't understand why there's a problem with giving other people the choice to eat it.

I think that's the issue, I believe that with any new trade deal with the US or anywhere else wanting to export food to us part of the agreement would be to get rid of the requirement for labels that meet current EU standards. For example if you look at a bar of Reese's chocolate, the label on the back with the ingredients will be stuck on for the EU market. It will list all ingredients and will show which ones are GM. If you peel the label off the list for US consumers is much shorter and simpler with no mention of GM. We know the US is keen to get rid of protected geographical indications, full disclosure labelling will be next on the list and will be described as de-regulation.
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 618
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:
It's a game-changing moment.


It certainly is.

As I write there is a large ship sailing to the UK from China, with inter alia, 150 tonnes of chemical for a UK customer. That customer usually gets monthly deliveries JIT from Germany by Road.

If this shipment goes to plan without hitches in quality, storage, process issues, then the business will change to a twice yearly deliveries from China.



Until, once it's setup and running with little choice for the buyer they start putting their lower quality stuff in the ship instead. Like "quality" Chinese steel.

I agree with careful_eugene about labelling requirements, it's going to be one of the things the USA wants us to reduce regulation on. We're going to be to totally screwed over on this deal as we have no leaverage whatsoever and the USA has no allies at the end of the day, just countries it can use at the time.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8828
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First net decrease in EU migration since 2004:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-eastern-europeans-leave-uk-13127071

Quote:

More migrants from eight eastern European countries are now leaving the UK than arriving, official figures revealed today.

It's the first time there has been a net departure from the so-called EU8 states, including Poland and Czech Republic, since they joined the EU in 2004.

The stark fact - prompting warnings of a "Brexodus"- comes after 'net long-term migration' to Britain dropped sharply since the Brexit vote in 2016.

The measure records the difference between the number of people arriving and leaving the UK for at least 12 months.

Around 45,000 immigrants arrived from EU8 countries - Poland, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia and Latvia - in the year to the end of March.

At the same time, 47,000 departed - giving a net migration figure of minus 2,000.


Lots of people wailing of course, regardless of the fact it is driving rental prices down:

https://www.property118.com/eastern-europeans-leaving-uk/

And unemployment down:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/unemployment-in-scotland-drops-as-eu-workers-leave-uk-1-4783623

As for me personally, this is all music to my ears. What a result, and even before brexit has happened. These people (from the EU8 eastern European and baltic states) have been stripping british woodlands of fungi. Every one of them that goes back home is a bonus. Bye bye.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6051
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this means employers will have to improve pay and working conditions for indigenous British workers. Well boo hoo. Excuse me while I cry a f***ing river.
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