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Catweazle



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 2234
Location: Little England, over the hills

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "rainy day" investment is such a personal thing. Mine would be a few drums of diesel.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7084
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I intend to invest a few thousand quid in tins of dried and tinned foods and maybe the odd non-food items such as candles. Stuff that can last for years if kept right. Partly for myself because prices are going to shoot up at some point. But, also partly as stuff to sell at inflated prices when the time comes.

I intend to get at least a couple of years up front and then progressively replace at one end as I consume from the other end
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boisdevie



Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 299
Location: N Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Partly for myself because prices are going to shoot up at some point. But, also partly as stuff to sell at inflated prices when the time comes.


However, there's always the danger that if people know you have stuff you'll end up getting killed for it. And thankfully the powers that be won't let us defend ourselves with pepper spray let along firearms.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7084
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boisdevie wrote:
Little John wrote:
Partly for myself because prices are going to shoot up at some point. But, also partly as stuff to sell at inflated prices when the time comes.


However, there's always the danger that if people know you have stuff you'll end up getting killed for it. And thankfully the powers that be won't let us defend ourselves with pepper spray let along firearms.
I'm not yet banking on or planning for it getting that bad. But, if it does, I am as at least as dangerous and probably more dangerous than many, if push comes to shove. Also, if it ever got that bad, the "powers that be" wont be doing much of anything at the level no-marks like me live.
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adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7288
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long life foods would IMHO be a wise purchase.
Such supplies should be well hidden.

Consider also, Energiser ultimate lithium AA cells, the latest production has a claimed life of 20 years, and would probably keep longer under good conditions.

Candles as already suggested.
Paraffin, decant into BLUE steel jerry cans for long term storage.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5285
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boisdevie wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
3 questions. How far off retirement are you? Have you made sufficient contributions for a full state pension? Do you live in the UK?


I'm 54 but only expect to get basic state pension. Will probably inherit at least 150k in ten years time. Yep, live in UK.

OK my previous suggestion is not relevant but perhaps wining and dining a rich widow that is 60 something might be fun and profitable if you are single. Otherwise you are looking for an investment that will be positive in say ten years. The high flying tech stocks probably have your highest potential for growth but I don't have a clue which will be still flying high and which will be toast ten years from now.
So perhaps go for what you think will probably still be in demand 2028, ?? Exxon or some other energy company, McKesson corp on the health care side and Raytheon corp. on the defense industry side come to mind.
Best of luck picking a winner for your £2000.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11306
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
I intend to invest a few thousand quid in tins of dried and tinned foods and maybe the odd non-food items such as candles. Stuff that can last for years if kept right. Partly for myself because prices are going to shoot up at some point. But, also partly as stuff to sell at inflated prices when the time comes.

I intend to get at least a couple of years up front and then progressively replace at one end as I consume from the other end


One of my ultra green Remainer "friends" took me to task for even suggesting that he should have at least a week's worth of food in the cupboard in case Brexit caused a problem and that he should have a couple of month's worth, and probably a year's worth, in case of any climate (he's got an MSc in Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies from CAT) or economic catastrophe caused a problem with food supply. The earful (eyeful really as it was on Facebook) that I got for daring to suggest such a thing was a noise to be heard!!

I am about to do a series of posts on holistic thinking to do with climate change. I've already started with immigration which was posted on another thread here. It amazes me that people can take an interest in a subject to the extent that they are willing to invest a lot of time and money in it and then come out of the end without being able to dot the Is and cross the Ts and do joined up writing.

It's the same all through with the Trumpians thinking that, despite their arrangement of a 4 deg C temperature rise, the economy will go on just as before in a steady linear rise! ("steady linear rise" is an in joke among alternative economists because it is what conventional economists think happens and everyone else knowing that exponential change happens) Lord Stern points out in his book, Why Are We Waiting?, that climate change will result, not in steady manageable change, but in a series of catastrophic unmanageable changes.

Environmentalists think that they can change the world by tinkering around the edges of the economy without changing the banking system. And so it goes on but few ever join it all up.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5285
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:


One of my ultra green Remainer "friends" took me to task for even suggesting that he should have at least a week's worth of food in the cupboard in case Brexit caused a problem and that he should have a couple of month's worth, and probably a year's worth, in case of any climate (he's got an MSc in Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies from CAT) or economic catastrophe caused a problem with food supply. .......

I don't need the fear of climate change or economic collapse to keep a stock of emergency food on hand. In fact I don't remember a time when there was less then three months food in the house. It comes from my parents living through both world wars and the depression between them and my fathers working union jobs that had frequent seasonal layoffs and strikes.
Every house owner should keep on hand at least a gallon jar of rice or flour and a shelf full of canned goods and pasta and beans for that day when you can't get to the store or have no money be it weather, job, or injury that causes the problem. You can and should rotate the stock as needed so it costs you nothing in the long run.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7288
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, everyone should if at all possible have food and water for at least two weeks, longer if circumstances allow.
In the short term a balanced diet is of little importance, a diet consisting for example of orange juice, breakfast cereal, long life milk, biscuits, and chocolate bars would be fine. And cost only about £35* for a couple of weeks worth.

A longer term emergency diet needs a little more thought, as does procuring drinking water.

*
5 bars chocolate, each 200g----------------------£7.00
8 liters orange juice-------------------------------£6.00
8 500ml packs long life milk----------------------£5.00
2 packs muesli each 750g-------------------------£4.00
5 Kg chocolate biscuits, pack sizes as available--£10.00
20L water in bulk packs----------------------------£5.00

£37 in total, possibly less with some shopping around.
All of the above can be consumed without any cooking, heating, or other preparation.
None requires refrigeration.

More water might be prudent, you can survive for longer without food than without water.
"Water means life. Do not waste it"

Other permutations of everyday supermarket foods are possible of course.
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sam_uk



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

Not been around for a bit, but thought I'd drop in.

I spent a couple of hundred quid on https://www.mountainhouse.com/ a few years ago. Not used any, still not regretting it.

I quite rate these: https://shop.solar-aid.org/collections/products/products/sm100 50% of each purchase sends light to Africa too.

Every half serious prepper should own at least 10x water filter candles IMHO
https://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Replacement-Heavy-Metal-Filters-Pack/dp/B00519CVJ8/ Provide water for your whole community, make some friends!

My personal top buy is Chestnut saplings,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-Sweet-Chestnut-Castanea-sativa-15-25cm-Cell-Grown/392147239831?hash=item5b4dcc0397:g:57sAAOSwDOpbwjtg:rk:12:pf:0

Don't take up _that_ much space in a 75L trug, even in a rental property
https://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/75-Litre-Rhino-Flexi-Black/dp/B000FUFA1Y/

Worth more as they grow, If you have dreams of back to the land having 50x 5ft tall specimens is a couple of years on not sitting there watching them grow.
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adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7288
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back.

Yes, the above items are arguably more useful than gold.
Gold wont keep you warm and you cant usefully eat it. It does have the merits of portability, durability, and that governments cant print more of it.

I have mountain house doomfood
I have a gravity water filter, and spare filters for it.
I have portable solar panels for battery charging.

I am a bit doubtful about the small solar light linked to in the previous post.
I doubt that such a small PV module would ever fully charge the battery in UK winter conditions.
Better than nowt though.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5285
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many could or have self tested their preparations?
By that I mean pulling the main breaker to the electric grid and shutting off the water on your side of the meter and parking any and all motor vehicles and walking anywhere you need to go. I'd leave the waste water out (sewer pipes) open ,as they wouldn't have much flow without domestic water in, but participants should consider how much more difficult things would be if those failed as well.
The length of test should be at least a week (or until defeat is admitted) but longer tests would establish your true ability to self provide.
I'll admit that though I have gone a week or more without electricity it has been forty years sense I had that and no use of a vehicle at the same time.
You can of course use food and fuel you have in storage as preparations but the only additions allowed are those you can secure on foot or bicycle (if you have one).
Think about it.
How would you do?
Edit to add you need to shut off the gas if you have it.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 7084
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't worry too much about how people would adapt, They would adapt surprisingly fast if a full belly depends on it.

The main problem is that there would not be enough to go round no matter how well everyone adapted. Some people would starve and that would be it. The only question is who. The answer to that question gets a whole lot easier if most people have not put anything to one side in preparation. In turn, meaning that those who do, would have the best chances of survival, assuming they could successfully hide and/or hold onto their shit.

If everyone is "prepared", then everyone is equally capable of fighting for the not enough stuff that will be available. And that would be far messier for a more protracted period of time.

Or, to put it another way:

Imagine, in one scenario, a room with 10 people locked inside for a month and only enough food for 5 of them for the month and 5 of them were armed.

Now imagine another similar scenario. But, this time, all 10 are armed.

In the first scenario, things would be pretty unpleasant for 5 of them. But, in the second scenario, they would be lucky if more than one or two were still alive after the shooting stopped.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 5285
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In America if ten people were in the room with five armed the other five would probably be their wives and children and the armed would shoot the lock open.
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sam_uk



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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