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Vote Labour to get a new Conservative party later?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Em, but it was still a good idea.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve always said the voting age is too high. I knew what I wanted to vote when I was 14 and my politics haven’t changed since.

You can be old enough to pay tax in the UK and Ireland but not old enough to vote. Mad.

Properly independent civics education, along with the vote, might be of great benefit to the next generations affected by politics.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but that is ridiculous.

14 year olds do not know their arses from their elbows and are deeply psychologically impressionable. Furthermore, their morality and intellectual capacities are simplistic in the extreme.

This is not their fault. Indeed, it is not even a fault in itself. It's **normal** because they are **14**

Note: intellectual capacity is not the same as intelligence. Or, to put it another way, there is no direct line connection between wisdom and being clever. Though, clever people hate to be told this, of course.

My authority for stating the above is an academic background in psychology and 20 years of teaching

As for your point about Tax. It is a fair one. The solution to which is that 16 year olds and under should not pay tax on earnings. Additionally, in order for unscrupulous employers to not be able to take advantage of this, strict limits on conditions of work for 16 and under should be in place.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
.......................As for your point about Tax. It is a fair one. The solution to which is that 16 year olds and under should not pay tax on earnings. Additionally, in order for unscrupulous employers to not be able to take advantage of this, strict limits on conditions of work for 16 and under should be in place.


16 to 30 - that's a huge amount of tax to lose. Can't see government agreeing to that. You'd have as much chance of getting lobbying and payments from lobbyists banned along with the introduction of government funded elections.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For several years, I really resented not being able to vote until my 18th birthday. I'd been working and paying tax for two years by then. One of the most important things for me on moving to Ireland was getting the vote (you have to get citizenship here to participate in all votes).

So OK, I can only speak for myself and I'm looking at the issue from a politically and intellectually fixed point of view. I realise others may not be/may not have been capable but that's what independent and excellent teaching should be all about overcoming.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
.................. I realise others may not be/may not have been capable but that's what independent and excellent teaching should be all about overcoming.


From my experience of teachers that I have known since I left school, not least one on this board, a lot of teachers, and probably a majority, would appear to be left of centre. Would that be because it is a "unionised" profession or is it "unionised" because of the political stance of the members of the profession?
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:
.......................As for your point about Tax. It is a fair one. The solution to which is that 16 year olds and under should not pay tax on earnings. Additionally, in order for unscrupulous employers to not be able to take advantage of this, strict limits on conditions of work for 16 and under should be in place.


16 to 30 - that's a huge amount of tax to lose. Can't see government agreeing to that. You'd have as much chance of getting lobbying and payments from lobbyists banned along with the introduction of government funded elections.
I didn't say 16 to 30. I said 16 and under
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
For several years, I really resented not being able to vote until my 18th birthday. I'd been working and paying tax for two years by then. One of the most important things for me on moving to Ireland was getting the vote (you have to get citizenship here to participate in all votes).

So OK, I can only speak for myself and I'm looking at the issue from a politically and intellectually fixed point of view. I realise others may not be/may not have been capable but that's what independent and excellent teaching should be all about overcoming.
Neither teaching nor any other form of environmental input will fully overcome it. It is a developmental issue that is resolved with increasing age and experience.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
.................. I realise others may not be/may not have been capable but that's what independent and excellent teaching should be all about overcoming.


From my experience of teachers that I have known since I left school, not least one on this board, a lot of teachers, and probably a majority, would appear to be left of centre. Would that be because it is a "unionised" profession or is it "unionised" because of the political stance of the members of the profession?
Most teachers are extreme political and cultural conformists with a few radicals on the side (the radicals tend to end up running the unions). Petite bourgeois personified, in other words.

The current, dominant cultural and political norms are liberal with a bit of faux-left on the side. So, guess what most teachers are like...
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have to be not-outright-rw in order to want to be a teacher at all - otherwise you wouldn't believe in your own profession!
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