PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Chinese electric cars and buses

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Transport
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11271
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Chinese electric cars and buses Reply with quote

An article from Exponential Investor on Chinese Electric vehicles at market changing prices -

Forget Tesla, this is the electric car company to watch

BYD, the most important company you’ve never heard of, has been showing off its wares at the Shanghai Auto Show.

The leading Chinese electric vehicle manufacturer unveiled 23 new car models, ranging from high-powered gull-winged sports cars to SUVs, minivans and city cars.

The reason I say BYD is the most important company you’ve never heard of is not because of its cars, but its buses.

>From Bloomberg in 2018:

Electric buses were seen as a joke at an industry conference in Belgium seven years ago when the Chinese manufacturer BYD Co. showed an early model.

“Everyone was laughing at BYD for making a toy,” recalled Isbrand Ho, the Shenzhen-based company’s managing director in Europe. “And look now. Everyone has one.”

Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.

In fact, the market for electric buses has got so big it’s having a real effect on oil demand.

The Bloomberg article continues (emphasis mine):

The numbers are staggering. China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country’s entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters—the equivalent of London’s entire working fleet, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.


It goes on to say that these electric buses are reducing oil demand by 233,000 barrels a day. A day! When you add in the oil saved by electric cars and light trucks that rises to 277,000 a day.

That’s the equivalent of about 7.5% of Shell’s daily production.

It is a massive amount. And the vast majority of it is from electric buses. Electric car stores may grab most of the headlines, but it seems it’s buses that are leading the way.

So, it’s clear that BYD is a major player in the electric vehicle market. But what grabbed me about its Shanghai Auto Show releases was not the new supercar concept it was showing off…



… but the small town car it’s created:



Why? Well, this car has a range of 189 miles, and will go on sale for around £6,825. That’s incredibly cheap for any car, but for an electric one it’s unheard of.

>From CleanTechnica:

The BYD E1 is an economical compact electric car. It comes in 4 variants, with prices between 59,990–79,990 RMB ($8,915–11,888). The design is in line with most compact economy cars — as in, you get what you pay for — but I find the design good for what it is supposed to be. The range is 305 km (189 miles) NEDC.


To put that into perspective, the best-selling Nissan Leaf has a range of 169 miles and starts at £31,440.

And let’s not forget that once you’ve made the initial outlay, electric cars are incredibly cheap to run. We’re talking around 3p per mile, compared to diesel’s 9.1p per mile and petrol’s 12p per mile.

An electric car with a decent range that costs less than £7,000 to buy brand new, could transform the automotive industry.

The question is whether BYD will ever ship its cars to the West, and whether they will meet our stricter regulatory standards.

If you watched yesterday’s Exponential Investor Premium video, you’ll know that US and China relations are back on rocky ground.

As Eoin Treacy showed, two tweets from Donald Trump sent the Chinese stockmarket tanking and created shockwaves in markets throughout the world.

The biggest question for companies like BYD is how the trade war between China and the US will turn out.

But even so, if companies are managing to make decent electric vehicles at the prices BYD is quoting, the “electric vehicle revolution” may play out much faster than many analysts realise.

And if you’d like to find out how to profit from this situation, keep an eye out later this week when I’ll be sharing Eoin Treacy’s latest research into this area with you.
_________________
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7240
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF these cars are sold in the UK.
IF the range is genuine and not in Chinese miles
And IF they are reasonably safe and reliable.

Then this is IMHO a game changer. And even if they turn out not to be available, or are of doubtful quality, then it shows what COULD be done, perhaps by a competitor.

Regrettable though that it is imported and not made in the UK.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8087

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BYD, or Build Your Dreams is a good company. My next door neighbour and a few other people round here have BYD 10kWh lithium batteries in their power systems (both or and off-grid). Much cheaper and simpler than the Tesla Powerwall. Has a great guarantee too.

The car looks too cheap though. Even with super efficiency of 150Wh per mile that still requires around a 30kWh battery. You can't buy a 30kWh battery plus even the cheapest of cheap vehicles for under £7000.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 4025

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem, they can be sold like power tools, bare unit. Separate batteries and charger extra.
_________________
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese electric cars and buses Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:




Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.



Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14530
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Chinese electric cars and buses Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:




Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.



Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!


It’s not being tied to fixed routes that most people want from transport.

A better alternative is avoiding transport altogether. Why should I have to get myself to the food? Why isn’t a significant proportion of my food just a walk away? Apply this idea to every aspect of your life.
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7240
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Chinese electric cars and buses Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:




Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport—and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand.



Of course exactly the same thing can be managed without batteries, it is an old abandoned technology called trolley buses!


Better still IMHO would be trolley buses with a relatively small battery.
A small and therefore cheap and lightweight battery would permit of diversions away from the normal route. The hugely complicated trolley wire arrangements at road junctions and roundabouts could be eliminated.
In battery mode, the trolleybus could easily cross an electrified railway line at a level crossing, and could also pass under bridges too low to accommodate the trolley wires.
With most of the route electrified, the battery would be charged in normal service, no need for rapid charging or long layovers for slow charging.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5537
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those chinese prices will never be seen in the UK. They do not include

1. transport to UK costs
2. Import Duties
3. VAT at 20%

Also, cars for the chinese market probably have far lower safety equipment and air con and other entertainment specs.

The biggie of course is the very low wages and dire employment conditions of the people making the cars, compared to EU manufacturers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 7240
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
BYD, or Build Your Dreams is a good company. My next door neighbour and a few other people round here have BYD 10kWh lithium batteries in their power systems (both or and off-grid). Much cheaper and simpler than the Tesla Powerwall. Has a great guarantee too.


Might I suggest starting a new thread in the electrical forum about these batteries ?
Lets keep THIS thread on the topic of EVs.

BYD or other lithium batteries for home use would be interesting in the electrical forum.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11271
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a soft spot for trolley buses ever since the 1950s. The first ones that I remember were the one's that I got on to go to secondary school in 1960 but I know that I had used them before that on holidays with my grandparents in Portsmouth as well as at home in London. They had great acceleration as well as being very quiet.

Budapest has a great transport system with integrated trains, trams, trolley buses and buses. We could learn a lot from their system over here.
_________________
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Transport All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group