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German bast furnace damaged by internet hacking

 
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: German bast furnace damaged by internet hacking Reply with quote

Steel bast furnace physically damaged by hacking attack

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30575104

DO you think this was targeted/deliberate, or a random hack causing unintended consequences?

Shows how little resilience our systems have.
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3rdRock
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
“We worried for decades about WMD's – Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Now it is time to worry about a new kind of WMD – Weapons of Mass Disruption.”
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: German bast furnace damaged by internet hacking Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
Steel bast furnace physically damaged by hacking attack


It is rather dumb.

Quote:
Benjamin Sonntag, a software developer and digital rights activist, told Reuters: "We do not expect a nuclear power plant or steel plant to be connected to the internet.

"To be computerised, but to be connected to the internet and to be hackable - that is quite unexpected," he said.

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fuzzy



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Targeted attacks are regular. I thought 'Cyber wars' by Richard Clarke gave a good background. I used to work in networks doing steelwork comms. Even back in those days there were modems on the end of live phonelines and out of hours access - even mainframe and BACS dialups.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well obviously there is a need to post pictures of the steelworks cat on facebook.
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Blue Peter



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

"To be computerised, but to be connected to the internet and to be hackable - that is quite unexpected," he said.


How easy is this these days? I have little experience of s/w these days, but as I recall, I couldn't even start fully using a windows 8 PC without internet access. Plus all updates come via the internet.

Do internet free versions of s/w exist for this purpose?


Peter.
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Mr. Fox



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
'Cyber wars' by Richard Clarke gave a good background.


Good book. I'd further recommend John Robb's 'Brave New War' (and his blog). And Bruce Schneier, while we're at it. Smile

There are loads of systems that you'd assume to be 'air-gapped' but aren't. But then, even if they are, there are various attack vectors that can bridge that gap - remember Stuxnet? or E-cig chargers?

The truth is, you just don't know what is in the firmware of most of the devices you use is doing (unless you're Richard Stallman!). Just don't get me started on mobile phones.

This attack on the German steelworks appears to have been a pretty specialised thing, though, requiring inside knowledge of the control systems. My money would be on a disgruntled (ex)employee - but don't let that get in the way of (yet another) good "Eeek! Scary hackers!" news story. It's all prep for the clampdown. Very Happy

@Blue Peter: You have a choice. Wink
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now an attack on the Norwegian aluminium refining industry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47624207

Like blast furnaces, aluminium refining lines are particularly vulnerable to cyber attack as they are continuous processes that cant be readily shut down and then restarted after an attack.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have they made a recent statement disliked by a certain country in the middle east that had something to do with Stuxnet?
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fuzzy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No evidence, but today we had a mushroom cloud over Port talbot steelworks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfwtwX95gVs


and the same day:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-26/fire-rages-out-control-russian-ballistic-missile-plant

any guesses?
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adam2
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
No evidence, but today we had a mushroom cloud over Port talbot steelworks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfwtwX95gVs


and the same day:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-26/fire-rages-out-control-russian-ballistic-missile-plant

any guesses?


Not likely to be internet hacking, IMO.
The accident at the steelworks involving a train carrying liquid metal sounds like a simple mechanical failure of a relatively low technology system. I very much doubt that the locomotive, or the track, or the torpedo wagon carrying molten metal had any internet connection.

The fire in a Russian defence facility also sounds accidental, compounded by run-down infrastructure and unserviceable fire fighting equipment.
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