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US shale oil production is plummeting
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 6174
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
The timing of high tide varies around the British coast as the tide comes in from the Atlantic and flows around the North of Scotland and south into the North Sea and also up the Channel so there is an overlap in the production of power. Also most of the time according to research there is wind blowing somewhere in or around Britain so given sufficient renewable capacity the need for backup power is minimal.

I'm aware of that but will stick by my earlier point of
Quote:
but if we build all three out to the extent practicable

and we will not know exactly how much we can get from that until we actually build it.
But let's not turn off or dismantle the old system or it's plants before we have the new up and running and carrying the load.
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Yves75



Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 258
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some impressive images regarding shale :



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/24/upshot/nd-oil-well-illustration.html

Scorched earth strategy if there is one ..
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 732
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the American E&Ps have managed to do is quite amazing, isn't it?
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8660

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
What the American E&Ps have managed to do is quite amazing, isn't it?

It is amazing, the scale of the fossil fuel extraction industry is the key reason why large scale CO2 sequestration is hopeless. CO2 is 'bigger' than the original fossil fuel, and when in the atmosphere, very low concentrations. Attempting to capture and sequester the CO2 would need another, mirror, industry... But without the energy/profit.
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 732
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
What the American E&Ps have managed to do is quite amazing, isn't it?

It is amazing, the scale of the fossil fuel extraction industry is the key reason why large scale CO2 sequestration is hopeless.


If the scale of the production can be amazing, so can the scale of sequestration.

I'll bet the engineering of it isn't the issue, but the cost sure will be! Can you see telling granny that she is getting a doubling of her energy costs, heating, A/C, driving, everything?

I am a doomer because I believe people will refuse to pay what it requires, to handle the full costs of using fossil fuels. Politicians sure aren't able to sell austerity with any success, with is a component of all this as well.

clv101 wrote:


CO2 is 'bigger' than the original fossil fuel, and when in the atmosphere, very low concentrations. Attempting to capture and sequester the CO2 would need another, mirror, industry... But without the energy/profit.


Yes!! I'm betting those of us with experience pumping things into the ground will make a mint off the subsidies when the government finally gets around to even attempting it.

I'm betting they won't even attempt it though, other than on small scale projects as some form of government R&D.
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kenneal



Joined: 06 Dec 2019
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves75 wrote:
Some impressive images regarding shale :

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/24/upshot/nd-oil-well-illustration.html

Scorched earth strategy if there is one ..


Development on that scale in the country side in the UK would provoke riots and any MP in the area who supported it would be out at the next election. The UK is so much more densely populated than the US.
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Yves75



Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 258
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:
What the American E&Ps have managed to do is quite amazing, isn't it?


For sure, they definitely are your typical barbarian idiots ("Americans" anglos), fed by quantitative easing. But all this doesn't matter much anyway, these days, so no need to bother.


Last edited by Yves75 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1254
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
So we have solar power that doesn't work at all after sundown.And wind power that doesn't work if the weather is wrong and tidal power that predictably doesn't work at neap tide at any given location. So we can't rely on any one of them for total power production, but if we build all three out to the extent practicable we can take a big chunk out of total demand and fill the gaps with some new modular nuclear power or a few lingering fossil fuel plants.
That much is possible and we should do that and then see where we can go from there.


A little bit of sense & add in the rapid development of battery technology too

However, the bit that most people forget:
WE ALL NEED TO USE A LOT LESS !!!


Last edited by Mark on Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves75 wrote:
For sure, they definitely are your typical barbarian idiots ("Americans" anglos), fed by quantitative easing. But all this doesn't matter much more anyway, these days, so no need to bother.


Sadly, you´re probably correct....

Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50708544
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 4130

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
So we have solar power that doesn't work at all after sundown.And wind power that doesn't work if the weather is wrong and tidal power that predictably doesn't work at neap tide at any given location. So we can't rely on any one of them for total power production, but if we build all three out to the extent practicable we can take a big chunk out of total demand and fill the gaps with some new modular nuclear power or a few lingering fossil fuel plants.
That much is possible and we should do that and then see where we can go from there.


A little bit of sense & add in the rapid development of battery technology too

However, the bit that most people forget:
WE ALL NEED TO USE A LOT LESS !!!


Meanwhile China is building HUNDREDS of coal fired power stations, so they are not thinking the same as you.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1254
Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
Mark wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
So we have solar power that doesn't work at all after sundown.And wind power that doesn't work if the weather is wrong and tidal power that predictably doesn't work at neap tide at any given location. So we can't rely on any one of them for total power production, but if we build all three out to the extent practicable we can take a big chunk out of total demand and fill the gaps with some new modular nuclear power or a few lingering fossil fuel plants.
That much is possible and we should do that and then see where we can go from there.


A little bit of sense & add in the rapid development of battery technology too

However, the bit that most people forget:
WE ALL NEED TO USE A LOT LESS !!!


Meanwhile China is building HUNDREDS of coal fired power stations, so they are not thinking the same as you.


Partially agree, but think you read the Daily Mail too much....

I am the only one who thinks we need to use less ?
We obviously share the climate globally, so no use one country doing good stuff, if others do the total opposite.
The UK is doing some good things, but only in certain areas.....
As you mention, China is doing some terrible things, but they are also doing some great things......
They recently closed down thousands of polluting factories and are well on the way towards electrifying public transport....
Yes, we should be critical of certain things, but we should also learn from others with good practice, no ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/10/24/china-shuts-down-tens-of-thousands-of-factories-in-widespread-pollution-crackdown/
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/dec/12/silence-shenzhen-world-first-electric-bus-fleet

That is why there is a COP25 Meeting at the moment in Madrid ?

Global Agreements have worked before (eg Montreal Protocol for Ozone Depleting Substances), but as we know, Greenhouse Gases are much more problematic due to all the vested interests and economic factors.
As Greta T highlighted in her speech, these meetings are deeply flawed, but they are the only game in town ?
The world will properly wake up soon, but I fear it is already too late......,
I guess that is the Doomer in me.....
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ReserveGrowthRulz



Joined: 19 May 2019
Posts: 732
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

Partially agree, but think you read the Daily Mail too much....

I am the only one who thinks we need to use less ?


Of course not. I completely agree with the idea of using less. Of everything.

Mark wrote:

We obviously share the climate globally, so no use one country doing good stuff, if others do the total opposite.

That is why there is a COP25 Meeting at the moment in Madrid ?


And why the COP21 meeting happened. To teach us that politicians saying things are completely irrelevant, and we would all be better off if we just used less.

Mark wrote:


Global Agreements have worked before (eg Montreal Protocol for Ozone Depleting Substances), but as we know, Greenhouse Gases are much more problematic due to all the vested interests and economic factors.


And people not wanting to use less.

Mark wrote:

As Greta T highlighted in her speech, these meetings are deeply flawed, but they are the only game in town ?


And let me guess, she didn't throw in some good jokes about effective COP21 was? Or how politicians talking aren't likely to convince folks to buy into austerity any better than Macron has managed to do in France?

Mark wrote:

The world will properly wake up soon, but I fear it is already too late......,
I guess that is the Doomer in me.....


Wake up soon? You mean 30 years from now when folks understand what a crock COP21 was, or when Atlantic seaboard real estate owners FINALLY realize that barrier islands are poor places to reside? My bet is on not enough folks getting excited, soon enough, for any plan to work.

Adapt early, and avoid the rush!
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