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Massive jump in coal price expected...

 
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Ballard



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 826
Location: Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Massive jump in coal price expected... Reply with quote

UK coal producer pushes for price increases of 40%

I guess that as one form of energy increases in cost it drags the others with it..


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9072-2138612,00.html

Quote:
BRITAIN?S biggest coal producer wants to increase the prices that it charges to power generators by 40 per cent, putting more pressure on energy costs, The Times has learnt.
UK Coal is negotiating key contracts with electricity generators and wants big increases to reflect the soaring world coal price.



It says that Britain needs coal to meet a large proportion of its power needs, at least for the next ten years. The company also says that generators cannot import all of their coal because the rail infrastructure will not cope and that even with a 40 per cent increase, it can beat import prices.

High gas prices and problems with nuclear energy output also have meant that the country has become increasingly reliant on coal for power generation. In the past five months 50 per cent of Britain?s electricity generation has come from coal.
Gerry Spindler, UK Coal?s chief executive, said that the last supply contracts, which were agreed in 2001, were based on prices that did not reflect current prices. Mr Spindler added that generators were resisting the rises and that he would press the Government to intervene. He said: ?We are looking for assistance in helping to get the contracts renegotiated. We are looking to get that done now.

?I believe that the Department of Trade and Industry understands the need for coal. Fifty per cent of our power came from coal over the past five months and I believe that the DTI appreciates the value of an indigenous industry.? Mr Spindler added that he understood that coal was the unfashionable part of the energy market as ministers look towards nuclear and renewables. ?Coal is the rich, drunken uncle at the family party. No one wants it there, but no one is going to ask it to leave because it is going to pay for the party.?
He said that if the Government sanctions the construction of new nuclear stations, as expected, it would still be years before they came on stream. ?I can?t see in the next ten years any reasonable way of curtailing the use of coal much without damaging economic growth,? he said.


As we can see from this coal will take the place of gas and nukes and nuts to global warming..

That second highlighted quote is genius...
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Tess



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2709
Location: Truro

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Massive jump in coal price expected... Reply with quote

Ballard wrote:
That second highlighted quote is genius...


Love it! Laughing
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Andy Hunt



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 6760
Location: Bury, Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As we can see from this coal will take the place of gas and nukes and nuts to global warming..


I think you're absolutely right - unless we can get 'clean coal' technology sorted out.

At the Peak Oil UK conference last year in Edinburgh, Jeremy Leggett was warning against exactly this eventuality - the dash for coal when it all 'comes on top' - which could be the nail in the coffin for global warming.
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fifthcolumn



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 2525

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Hunt wrote:

At the Peak Oil UK conference last year in Edinburgh, Jeremy Leggett was warning against exactly this eventuality - the dash for coal when it all 'comes on top' - which could be the nail in the coffin for global warming.

From a certain perspective this was obvious.
I'm a member of an investment club which cost me quite a few thousand to join back in the early 00's.
Everyone in that club has been aware of peak oil basically forever.
We have been discussing over and over again the effects that peak oil will have on the economy and what can be done etc etc
but from a business-as-usual perspective.

Here's the crunch: though I personally believe in global warming, the majority of the others (and they are the big money guys - I'm strictly small fry) STILL are not convinced. They also see Coal as being a great investment.

Not only that, the consensus is that government should butt out of the market and that it's government's FAULT for causing the problems.

Here is the way the investment community sees things developing:
1. Increased use of coal for electricity.
2. Increased use of wind for electricity (though they still see it as being "fringe"
3. Increased use of solar (though they say it barely works)
4. Increased use of fischer-tropsch to shore up limited oil supplies (especially the USA & China)
5. massive upscaling of canadian & venezuela tar-sands production
6. attempt to increase production from oil shale
7. scale up bio-diesel production as far as it can go
8. ethanol is a waste of time
9. many of them believe hydrogen works in spite of the energy calculations
10. many of them prefer diesel to electric vehicles in spite of the likelihood of shortages

So there we have it folks: the big money guys see things differently and they are the ones who run the show ultimately.
We also can't use government to rein them in, because in the end it is they who fund the government through purchase of their bonds and "after-market" jobs for ex-ministers.

So global warming will perforce have to take backseat to peak oil and that means MUCH MUCH more coal.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7636

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Massive jump in coal price expected... Reply with quote

Ballard wrote:
That second highlighted quote is genius...

Not this first time they've used it. See this from April 2006:

The return of coal

I understand the price of coal has doubled this year - as supply has also increased. This means it's demand-side pressures increasing the price. Is their enough coal to satisfy energy demand? Doubt it. Is there enough coal to cause dangerous climate change? Certainly.
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fifthcolumn



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 2525

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Massive jump in coal price expected... Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Ballard wrote:
That second highlighted quote is genius...

Not this first time they've used it. See this from April 2006:

The return of coal

I understand the price of coal has doubled this year - as supply has also increased. This means it's demand-side pressures increasing the price. Is their enough coal to satisfy energy demand? Doubt it. Is there enough coal to cause dangerous climate change? Certainly.


The two main issues are the same in coal as in oil and for the same reason: The USA and China.

The USA has gazillions of coal and they will (obviously) use it to stave off collapse. Likewise China.

Britain has somewhat less: we have enough to keep electricity going for on the order of a decade or so (less if we try to use it to make up for liquid fuel shortfalls). In all likelihood, however, we will start importing coal from Canada and the USA.

Welcome to the 2010 London smog folks.
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phobos



Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Massive jump in coal price expected... Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Ballard wrote:
That second highlighted quote is genius...

Not this first time they've used it. See this from April 2006:


Thats probably because this thread was started in April 06, someones bumping old threads....
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7636

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! Quite right! Embarassed
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