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Fuel Storage for stoves, lights, vehicles, and other uses.
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lancasterlad



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 358
Location: North Lancashire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Fuel Storage for stoves, lights, vehicles, and other uses. Reply with quote

Probably one for adam2! I 'm thinking of getting a multifuel lantern such as the BriteLyt (in addition to a Tilley and Oil Lamps)

What are the respective storage lengths of fuels before they deteriorate beyond useful use.

Unleaded, Diesel, Parafin, Ethanol etc.

Or to rephrase the question - what liquid fuel has the best storage life?

I did search the forum but couldn't find a comprehensive answer.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean to buy one or two of these BriteLyt (typical ugly American language perversion) lamps; just another thing to tick off on the preparations list though I was hoping to hear users' experience of them first. I'd be very interested in their practicality from the view of long-term use.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been disscused before, and no definate conclusion was reached.

I would expect that any common liquid fuel if stored in tightly sealed metal cans would keep almost indefinatly. Nothing can get in or out, and the metal of the can should not react with the contents.
This does however not seem to be the prevailing view, with a number of posters reporting fuel spoiling in storage (perhaps passing it through a magic magnetic device would help Laughing )

Petrol stored in vented vehicle tanks will rapidly evaporate, becoming at first useless and then vanishing entrirely.
Petrol stored in plastic cans rapidly spoils since the plastic is slightly pervious and allows the lighter fractions to escape.

I have parrafin stored in 5L plastic containers for 6 years which appears to be as good as new.
Parrafin stored in lamps not in regular use, very slowly evaporates leaving behind a sticky residue.

I have used petrol that was stored for 2 years in mil-spec cans and it worked fine in a car and in a generator.

A number of posts on a USA forum refer to coleman fuel keeping for 20 years or more provided that is kept in the sealed cans in which it is supplied.

I would avoid lamps that burn petrol or coleman fuel, since these fuels are more dangerous than parrafin.
Tilley lamps are excellent, and are parafin only.
Multi fuel lamps though versatile are IMHO less safe when burning petrol/gasolene/coleman fuel.
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lancasterlad



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Adam. I'm thinking of the BriteLyt as the ultimate backup in that in can run on most fuels. The Tilley would be used mainly with the Britelyt used if Parafin was in short supply or if another fuel was in greater supply.

As emordnilap asked, anyone using a BriteLyt??
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post from adam2 as usual. Thanks.
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PowerswitchClive



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have stored petrol in a 20L Jerry (super unleaded) can for 3 years with no change to the colour or usability of the Petrol, ie my car ran fine on it. Petrol stored in the plastic cans, evaporates and goes off in a matter of months.
Although having said that I would question why you would want to....! There are some amazing LED lanterns available that will give up to 120 hours use on a set of 3-4 D cell batteries.
Filling the lantern ( I use Coleman as an example ) will give you around 8 hours of light and a fire hazard... Not only will you need fuel, but you will need spare mantles also...
I really really can't see the point for lighting!

For example

http://www.outdoorscotland.co.uk/shop/ring-rt5088-camping-lantern.htm

I can highly recommend this one.. Very well built, gives 6 days worth of continuous soft light...

http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/gp/product/B001AH0M0U/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LED lanterns are very useful, long run time from relativly cheap batteries and no fire risk.
However neither flourescent nor LED lanterns are as bright as a tilley lamp or coleman lantern.
For safe movement in familiar premises very low light levels will suffice and I would recomend LED or battery flourescent lighting.

If however one wishes to light a room to a similar light level as mains electric lighting, then tilley or similar lamps are great, no feasible battery lantern comes anywhere near the output.

(A tilley lamp produces from 600 to 1,000 lumens, an LED lantern is most unlikely to exceed 100 lumens, and about 25 is typical. The larger battery operated flourescent lanterns can produce up to 200 lumens, which is very useful but they get through batteries at an alarming rate)

Fuel burning lanterns produce a lot of heat which is a decided advantage in winter.
Any fuel burning light is a potential fire risk, and proper care should be taken. Parrafin/kerosene is less of a risk then petrol/gasoline/coleman fuel.
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PowerswitchClive



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/gp/product/B001AH0M0U/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

This is a 300 Lumens Lantern....

I understand what your saying Adam.... I just think that fuel for emergency lighting might be wasteful. But you are right, a tilley lamp will light a room. You would want to put that LED lantern on a table next to you for reading etc
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lancasterlad



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wanting to cover most eventualities - led headtorch, led lanterns used first and foremost with fuel lanterns as a backup. Which stores longer - liquid fuel or batteries?
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PowerswitchClive



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D cell Duracels store for 5-6years
Fuel stores only depending on how you store it...
Also you will get into all sorts of problems and invalidate insurances etc storing fuel in a house or flat.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presuming that they are being honest about the 300 lumen claim, then the batteries wont last very long.

The lantern is said to use 3 LEDs each of 1 watt, some of the very best LEDs are now approaching 100 lumens a watt.
Some of the light would be lost within the lantern and not emiited usefully, and some power would be lost in the led driver circuit.

This suggests, that if the leds are driven at the full power of 1 watt each, that the total power required would be about 3.3 watts, and that the light output would be at the most 250 lumens.

3D cells would have a total on load voltage of about 3.6 volts, therefore the current would be about 0.9 amps.
Alkaline cells would only supply this current for about 10 hours, the lantern would probably remain lit for dozens or even hundreds of hours, but would be very dim for most of that time.

It is of course possible that the LEDs are not run at full power, that would extend the run time substantialy, but would make the claimed light output most improbable.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Presuming that they are being honest about the 300 lumen claim,
I don't recall anyone ever being honest about LED light levels.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerswitchClive wrote:
D cell Duracels store for 5-6years
Fuel stores only depending on how you store it...
Also you will get into all sorts of problems and invalidate insurances etc storing fuel in a house or flat.


Indeed, alkaline cells from the reputable manufacturers are designed to keep 7 years from production, which is typically 5/6 years from purchase.
In practice alkaline cells keep far longer, though with declining reliability and power output.
Lithium cells keep for 10/15 years from production, but are expensive and only available in a limited range of sizes.
Most lithium cells are NOT interchangeable with alkaline cells since they have a much higher voltage. The exception are the L91 AA, and AAA lithium cells by energiser, these can replace AA/AAA alkalines in most applications and have a long shelf life.

The light source with the longest shelf life is neither batteries nor liquid fuel, but candles.
Candles made from paraffin wax appear to last indefinitely, certainly they last for 50 years, and probably for much longer.

Edited many years after the O/P. The above was true when I posted it but technology moves on. Duracell now offer alkaline cells with a 10 year shelf life, known as the "duralock" range. The energiser L91 lithium cells are now available with a 20 year shelf life.
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Last edited by adam2 on Wed May 18, 2016 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding fuel storage, a relatively new product might be worth considering, "Aspen 4" (trade name). Google it for a local supplier.

This is a synthetic petrol that is manufactured from lighter hydrocarbons, rather than being the result of fractional distillation of crude oil.
As a result the chemical composition is much more tightly controlled than ordinary petrol.
It is claimed that it keeps much better than regular petrol and also that it burns much cleaner.

At several times the price of ordinary petrol it is uneconomic for fuelling a vehicle, but might be worth considering as a doom stock for petrol stoves and lanterns and perhaps also for small engines including chainsaws.

NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE PETROL IN ANY APPLIANCE INTENDED FOR PARAFFIN/KEROSENE. A serious accident is almost certain.

Aspen 4 is recommended for appliances intended for Coleman fuel or for automotive petrol. Though expensive compared to automotive petrol, it is cheaper than Coleman fuel and available in larger pack sizes.

Personally I am not keen on camp stoves or lanterns that burn petrol or similar volatile fuels for indoor use. Paraffin is much safer.

Remember also that the law sets strict limits on the volume of petrol that may be stored in domestic and similar premises.

Also available is Aspen 2, ready mixed with lubricating oil for 2 stroke engines, but UNSUITABLE for stoves and lanterns.

(and yes I know that this is very old thread, but still as relevant today)
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The law regarding domestic petrol storage has recently changed.

Up to 30L may now be stored in plastic or metal containers, provided that these are purpose made and suitably marked.

The contents of inbuilt petrol tanks in vehicles are not included.

Please take great care in the storing and handling of petrol, it is potentially dangerous.
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