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Biofuels not meeting environmental standard

 
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Biofuels not meeting environmental standard Reply with quote

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Biofuel suppliers need to do more to ensure that they are meeting sustainability standards and delivering carbon savings, says the UK watchdog.

In its second annual report, the Renewable Fuels Agency (RFA) details the biofuel supplied under the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO).

While the amount of biofuel supplied – 1.6 billion litres – accounts for 3.3% of the total UK transport fuel market, exceeding the Government target of 3.25%, it falls short on environmental measures.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprise! Surprise! The only people shocked by this will be the EU who stupidly mandated it.
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It is very, very, very serious indeed. This is the big one!" Professor Tim Lang, APPGOPO, 25/03/08. And he was talking about food, not oil or the economy!
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dig



Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why such an opposition to biofuels- especially for the more advanced?
Bioenergy is probably the most advantageous renewable source and its global potential is great.
i.e. http://www.biomassenergy.gr/en/articles/news/228-world-bioenergy-2x-larger-than-world-nuclear
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because they are taking food out of the mouths of the poor. Globalisation has destroyed local food production in poorer parts of the world so that the American corn belt can export its subsidised grain across the world and now that food is being used for fuel. With the world population increasing and increasingly turning to a diet with a larger meat content we will need all the grain, and all the land to grow it on, to feed that growing population.

In countries like the UK we can only just feed ourselves as the moment. With world food shortages looming and consequently prices rising, we will need all the land we have to grow food. We won't be able to compete with China to purchase any shortfall we have on the world market. Relying on an increasing acreage turned over to fuel growing at such a time is plain stupid especially as the EROEI is very close to 1 in our northern latitudes. Tropical countries like Brazil may be able to grow sugar cane and get ethanol at a reasonable EROEI, but we aren't Brazil.

If Greece isn't self sufficient in food, with your money problems, you won't be able to buy it abroad either. Food is more important than driving cars.
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It is very, very, very serious indeed. This is the big one!" Professor Tim Lang, APPGOPO, 25/03/08. And he was talking about food, not oil or the economy!
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dig



Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with your last words. But it' s not only a matter of driving cars but also of generating extra income - especially for the least wealthy nations. Now, if they don't get paid the required money for the feedstock they produce, the policies are to be blamed and not the fuels.
Let me mention also that biofuels are not only corn bioethanol or palm oil biodiesel; what about biogas from manure or organic effluents or food waste, syngas from agri-residues, pyrolysis oil from wood waste, algae biofuels, waste-to-energy technologies? The global bioenergy potential is great and seems to be the only viable way of producing alternative energy with multiple benefits (base load power plants, rural development, carbon capture for algae etc.)
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dig wrote:
I totally agree with your last words. But it' s not only a matter of driving cars but also of generating extra income - especially for the least wealthy nations. Now, if they don't get paid the required money for the feedstock they produce, the policies are to be blamed and not the fuels.
Let me mention also that biofuels are not only corn bioethanol or palm oil biodiesel; what about biogas from manure or organic effluents or food waste, syngas from agri-residues, pyrolysis oil from wood waste, algae biofuels, waste-to-energy technologies? The global bioenergy potential is great and seems to be the only viable way of producing alternative energy with multiple benefits (base load power plants, rural development, carbon capture for algae etc.)


I agree that we must use waste more efficiently but even more important is the elimination of waste and using less in general. This would reduce the number of aerobic digestion plants which could be supported.

In the UK most/many (I not sure of the exact numbers)of our sewage treatment plants already have digesters which produce gas and then electricity to help power the plants. UK farmers are starting to install digesters but there is resistance from local communities because they object to additional feedstock being bought in to make the plants more economic.

UK also has the problem that the supermarkets are putting our dairy farmers especially but also our pig and poultry farmers out of business by only offering prices below production costs which is reducing the potential in that field.
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dig



Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course material recycling should be on the forefront but also energy recovery from waste is really significant. On the other hand, typical aerobic digestion plants consume large amounts of energy and in case that no biogas is exploited so as to minimize net power consumption (unfortunately the usual case in Greece) their environmental benefit is rather overestimated.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Energy recovery from waste'.

No thanks; incineration is the absolute last resort, so last it should not exist.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bereal wrote:
My chemistry professor raised a valid question once in discussion and it went something like biofuel supposedly garner about 10 to 15% of its components from other natural sources but when making this resources, you still expend fuel, add to that, the means of transportation which expends fuel as well.

It raises questions about how effective they could really be, add to that the extra amount of resource needed by the area they would import because their stock got wiped out.


Presumably you're talking about energy returned on energy invested, bereal?

Such a concept is valid but it has no meaning for most. The EROEI when (for example) you convert bituminous coal from underneath Argentina to the heat in a cup of tea in west Kerry is staggeringly poor but does anyone try to question it or put a stop to it? Not yet.

Having said that, I think you're a spambot. I'd be pleased if you proved me wrong. Go on, try it.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dig wrote:
generating extra income - especially for the least wealthy nations.
Hi there dig and welcome.

There are people from Ireland on this Board who'll know more about this than I do, but in Cecil Woodham-Smith's definitive work on the Irish famine she goes into some detail about the folly (committed by England, I'm afraid) of getting the desperately-poor out and working for an income. The folly being that if they were working on producing goods for export, and receiving cash payments, what could this cash buy if there were no food to be had in the vicinity??

Ireland's problem was ultimately because of the poor quality of the land (it harboured Blight) but a lack of quantity of land would give a similar problem.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
bereal wrote:
My chemistry professor raised a valid question once in discussion and it went something like biofuel supposedly garner about 10 to 15% of its components from other natural sources but when making this resources, you still expend fuel, add to that, the means of transportation which expends fuel as well.

It raises questions about how effective they could really be, add to that the extra amount of resource needed by the area they would import because their stock got wiped out.


Presumably you're talking about energy returned on energy invested, bereal?

Such a concept is valid but it has no meaning for most. The EROEI when (for example) you convert bituminous coal from underneath Argentina to the heat in a cup of tea in west Kerry is staggeringly poor but does anyone try to question it or put a stop to it? Not yet.

Having said that, I think you're a spambot. I'd be pleased if you proved me wrong. Go on, try it.


You are right, it was a spambot, advertising diesel generators.
I have deleted the posts and the poster, but left your qoute of the post.
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robinjack007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely identify with your last circumstances. But it' s not only a issue of developing vehicles but also of developing more money - especially for the least rich countries.
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mobbsey



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who thinks that biofuels -- of any description -- are a solution to the woes of industrial society needs to drink two pints of olive oil and then vigorously pogo for ten minutes.
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