PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Chernobyl 25 years on: a poisoned landscape
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Nuclear Power
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to worry about radiation - here's the protection: http://homeopathyplus.com.au/?s=nuclear

Rolling Eyes
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ee the 145 studies further down the page showing the efficacy of homoeopathic treatments, Biff?
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they convinced me.

(I'm getting to like Poe's Law)
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0426_060426_chernobyl.html

Quote:

It turns out that the radioactive cloud may have a silver lining. Recent studies suggest that the 19-mile (30-kilometer) "exclusion zone" set up around the reactor has turned into a wildlife haven.


More Chernobyls please!

Here's how I see it. We are heading for a major crash and it is now inevitable that we will not have enough money to safely dispose of many nuclear plants. There will probably be cut corners, and more accidents.

But nuclear disasters like Chernobyl, it seems, are only disasters for humans. For the wildlife, it's a result. So a few die of cancer or other mutations. Makes no difference in the natural environment - another individual will simply take its place.

Quote:

...rare species, such as lynx, Przewalski's horses, and eagle owls, are thriving where most humans fear to tread.


I'm surprised at this bit though:

Quote:

The scientists are also concerned that the mutated birds will pass on their abnormal genes to the global population.

"In the worst case scenario these genetic mutations will spread out, and the species as a whole may experience enhanced levels of mutation," Mousseau said


Nonsense, I think. If the mutant genes are harmful, they won't spread very far. That's how evolution works.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they're harmful to the birds etc that have them, yes. If, otoh, they give the birds etc some massive advantage (supersonic flight, telepathy, night vision, etc) then the birds are OK but someone else is stuffed Smile

The "wildlife haven" reports have been contradicted by other reports, btw, but I'm not sure who to believe. There's probably a lot of dirty (conventional) chemistry in the Ukraine also, which any wildlife far from humans will be spared. This may more than offset the nuclear damage, or it may not, or it may depend on what sort of animal/plant you are.
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
The Price of Time
BLOG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
If they're harmful to the birds etc that have them, yes. If, otoh, they give the birds etc some massive advantage (supersonic flight, telepathy, night vision, etc) then the birds are OK but someone else is stuffed Smile

The "wildlife haven" reports have been contradicted by other reports, btw, but I'm not sure who to believe. There's probably a lot of dirty (conventional) chemistry in the Ukraine also, which any wildlife far from humans will be spared. This may more than offset the nuclear damage, or it may not, or it may depend on what sort of animal/plant you are.


Yes, that's true. I don't have any doubt it is a haven for rare fungi though. In my experience there is a direct correlation: the fewer humans visiting a particular location, the more chance of finding fungi. I suspect it works this way with most species.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aurora



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 8502

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Guardian - 04/04/11

Japan nuclear plant to release radioactive water into sea

Fukushima plant will discharge 11,500 tonnes of water into Pacific to make space for more highly contaminated liquid.

Article continues ...

Crying or Very sad It gets worse by the day.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12960655

Quote:

The Fukushima accident has highlighted one of the most important issues concerning nuclear power - that of safety and risk.
Fukushima reactor The risk of containment damage at Fukushima was put at one in a million, per reactor per year

The accepted wisdom has been that the consequences of a catastrophic nuclear accident may be large, but that the frequency is low.

The industry and nuclear regulators calculate this on the basis of the likelihood of an accident for any one operating year. In the case of the design of the first four reactors at Fukushima, the Japanese Nuclear Energy Safety Organization estimated in 2002: "The frequency of occurrence of a core damage accident is 1/100,000 or less per one year for one reactor and the frequency of occurrence of an accident leading to containment damage is 1/1,000,000 or less per one year for one reactor."

Given that only a few decades, rather than millennia separate the accidents at Fukushima, Chernobyl and Three Mile Island (which were also thought to be at minimal risk of core damage) it is clear that nuclear operators and/or regulators are significantly underestimating the inherent risks associated with nuclear technology...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bandidoz
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 2705
Location: Berks

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Deleted all the immature nonsense]
_________________
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, that was a terrible grammatical howler, I should have written:
Quote:
...but I'm not sure whom to believe.
Cool
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
The Price of Time
BLOG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Highly radioactive water is seeping from at least one point at reactor No 2, where a 20cm crack has been found in a concrete pit.


A 20cm break in the concrete isn't a crack, it's a bloody great fissure. From the pictures that I've seen it look more like a 20mm crack. This should be fillable using high pressure quick drying cement grout pumps.

If it is a 20cm (eight inch) fissure it means that the explosions in the plant have shifted the whole plant. You can't just squash concrete by 200 mm to make a gap where there was none before. That 200mm of concrete has to go somewhere. A 20mm crack is bad enough in that it implies that there must be incipient leakage from hinge points on either side of the crack as well as at the actual crack.

Either that or the crack is a shrinkage crack left over from the original building of the reactors. The ramifications of that for the build quality of the whole site are too bad to imagine. Every civil or structural engineer knows that lengths of concrete will crack every 7 meters (20 feet) and the building should be designed to take account of this with shrinkage joints. This is especially essential in water retaining structures, which this, I presume, should be.

The implications for future reactors are that there should be a double water retention bunding system so that if the first water retention bund is broken by an explosion in the plant, as seems to have happened here, any water leaking out would be retained by the second bund. That will add to the costs considerably as both bunds would also have to be roofed and be built high enough to prevent rain water entering and any flood water or tidal waves entering as well.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Aurora



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 8502

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal wrote:
Quote:
Highly radioactive water is seeping from at least one point at reactor No 2, where a 20cm crack has been found in a concrete pit.


A 20cm break in the concrete isn't a crack, it's a bloody great fissure. From the pictures that I've seen it look more like a 20mm crack. This should be fillable using high pressure quick drying cement grout pumps.

Quick drying cement? This is what they were using over the weekend:

Quote:
At the weekend workers tried and failed to plug the crack by using 80kg of highly absorbent polymer (more commonly used in nappies) mixed with shredded newspaper and sawdust. A previous attempt to use concrete had a similar outcome.

Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aurora wrote:
Quick drying cement? This is what they were using over the weekend:

Quote:
At the weekend workers tried and failed to plug the crack by using 80kg of highly absorbent polymer (more commonly used in nappies)

Shocked
Oh-oh, we're back to Nuclear Boy...
_________________
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
The Price of Time
BLOG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal wrote:

If it is a 20cm (eight inch) fissure it means that the explosions in the plant have shifted the whole plant. You can't just squash concrete by 200 mm to make a gap where there was none before. That 200mm of concrete has to go somewhere. A 20mm crack is bad enough in that it implies that there must be incipient leakage from hinge points on either side of the crack as well as at the actual crack.


Er, did you forget about the earthquake? The damage to the road outside the power station showed differential movements of much more than 200mm. The Earth moved.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9822
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes! But I still think the media don't know their mm from their cm. You wouldn't try to grout a 200mm fissure.
_________________
"When the last tree is cut down, and the last river has been poisoned, and the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find out that you cannot eat money". --The Cree Indians
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Nuclear Power All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group