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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

Sally,

In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity.

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level.

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.
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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

Tess,

The only reason behind my limited discussion is the large number of forums on which I have posted the article. This has prevented me from engaging in long discussions in most forums.
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isenhand



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1296
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
Sally,

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain.


Why do you think they take a long time to develop? Where do you get that information from? What do you mean when you use the ?freezing of thought?? Why do you think they are not automatic?

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sushil_yadav



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Delhi , India

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:23 am    Post subject: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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isenhand



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:


Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment.


Does not follow. I can fix things I did not make.

I think you are contradicting yourself here:

sushil_yadav wrote:

Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.


So, man can make a forest in millions of years!



sushil_yadav wrote:

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed.


That I agree with, its much better not to break the thing in the first place!


sushil_yadav wrote:

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Incorrect and industrial society does not destroy mind nor environment; people do. To say ?industrial society destroys mind and environment? would be like saying ?guns kill people.? In both cases the root cause is people not what the people create.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh do stop splitting hairs. We all know what Sushil means and we know he's right.
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Pippa
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Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sushil

If you look again at the reasons you give for man working do you still believe these to be true? I think you have missed something there in terms of what really motivates.
I know I don't work simply because if I stop I get depressed and anxious, I do work because I have to which is because so many of us are in the debt cycle which is driven by the need to have somewhere to live and something to eat. Realising this truth is what makes me depressed and anxious.
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MacG



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Yea. Sure. But even non-industrial societies have destroyed environments pretty badly. Read for example Richard Cowen on copper mining in the mediterranean region thousands of years ago:

http://www.geology.ucdavis.edu/~cowen/~GEL115/115CH4.html
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting article MacG. I've seen the sites of mining by the Romans in Shropshire, where the spoil heaps are still so polluted by finely dispersed lead that the ground is almost bare and only a very limited range of plants grows.

But such metal processing is what we call industry. Richard Cowen is not describing the effects of a non-industrial society.
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isenhand



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Oh do stop splitting hairs. We all know what Sushil means and we know he's right.


Society is nothing without people. To blame industrial society with out seeing it?s the people then you miss the cause of the problem; people and they way people do things.

Its quite possible to have non-industrial societies destroying mind and environment and quite possible to have an industrial society that doesn?t. Its all to do with people and what they do.


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isenhand



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:

But such metal processing is what we call industry. Richard Cowen is not describing the effects of a non-industrial society.


Incorrect, an industrial society has industry as its main characteristic. Roman was mainly a farming civilisation and therefore, pre-industrial. Non society was industrial until the Industrial Revolution in Europe.

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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More hair-splitting. The bit of Roman Shropshire I visited definitely had an industrial society as, no doubt, had the various bits of the Mediterranean that Cowan described, even if the wider world was dominated by an agrarian economy.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
More hair-splitting. The bit of Roman Shropshire I visited definitely had an industrial society as, no doubt, had the various bits of the Mediterranean that Cowan described, even if the wider world was dominated by an agrarian economy.

Got to agree with this - just because Roman civilisation wasn?t ?industrial? doesn?t mean there weren?t small pockets of what we would call industrial civilisation. It?s telling that it is these small pockets that are being talked about in a negative way some 2,000 years later!
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dudley



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Oh do stop splitting hairs. We all know what Sushil means and we know he's right.


He's long-winded, though. In summary, as far as what we should be (not) doing, it seems that he's suggesting that people do less of everything except for manual labor and meditation; sort of turn off your mind and let things flow without thinking about them. It sounds deadly boring to me, but he already said he thinks that boredom is a modern invention.
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isenhand



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:

Got to agree with this - just because Roman civilisation wasn?t ?industrial? doesn?t mean there weren?t small pockets of what we would call industrial civilisation.


Yes it does, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-industrial_society

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