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Current Gold Price
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4264
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Whenever I consider buying any gold or silver I ask myself Why if paper currency will soon be useless do the dealers sell me their gold for those paper dollars?


If they believed that paper money would SOON be useless, then I would expect that bullion dealers WOULD hang onto the gold to fund their own post TSHTF retirement.

Whilst times are normal, they need to sell the gold at a profit in order to buy more gold to re-sell, just as any other retail business needs to sell existing stock at a profit to raise money for replacement stock.

If a significant number of gold coin dealers suddenly shut up shop, then that suggests to me that the world might be about to end.

That would assume that gold dealers had some accurate information about approaching events. As long as they are selling gold, all you can deduce from that is that ,they have no information pointing to a pending collapse accurate or not.
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snow hope



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 4105
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Whenever I consider buying any gold or silver I ask myself Why if paper currency will soon be useless do the dealers sell me their gold for those paper dollars?


Because that is what they do to make a living and we all have to live in the BAU world until it is no longer BAU - then they will close up very quickly.

The reason why people want to purchase Precious Metals is because they are a store of wealth when paper currencies begin to fail, which many people believe is currently happening. This process can become very fast - usually driven by the masses beginning to lose confidence in coloured paper.

But there is another aspect to consider. There are a number of reasons why PMs are a store of value, one being that they can't be printed or made by man and thus have a limited supply. They are hard to get out of the ground! Only a small percentage of people choose to buy PMs at the moment, if this doubles or triples, which could occur very quickly, we will have a scarcity. This will of course push up the prices as per the law of supply and demand.

People are unsure where to put their money at the moment due to the risks and volatility of the paradigm change in the financial environment since 2007/8. It is not hard to guess what is going to happen when people start to understand what is real money... and what coloured paper is worth.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Whenever I consider buying any gold or silver I ask myself Why if paper currency will soon be useless do the dealers sell me their gold for those paper dollars?


Because that is what they do to make a living and we all have to live in the BAU world until it is no longer BAU - then they will close up very quickly.

The reason why people want to purchase Precious Metals is because they are a store of wealth when paper currencies begin to fail, which many people believe is currently happening. This process can become very fast - usually driven by the masses beginning to lose confidence in coloured paper.

But there is another aspect to consider. There are a number of reasons why PMs are a store of value, one being that they can't be printed or made by man and thus have a limited supply. They are hard to get out of the ground! Only a small percentage of people choose to buy PMs at the moment, if this doubles or triples, which could occur very quickly, we will have a scarcity. This will of course push up the prices as per the law of supply and demand.


Yes, but only when the powers that be lose the ability to rig the market via paper and electronic mechanisms. And also it should be noted that in some previous occasions when the powers that be lost control of the precious metals markets - or were threatened by what was happening in them - then they simply closed down those markets, confiscated people's gold and silver and made private ownership of bullion illegal. The next stage of collapse being the point where those powers also lose the capability of closing down those markets or enforcing the prohibition, at which point the free market is automatically restored.

Whatever happens, the current debt-based, growth-dependent paper/electronic monetary system must and will fail, and probably in the forseeable future. The next, and probably last, step is negative interest rates.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think having money in so called precious metals is an illusion, since the metals are "held" in an electronic record. The only way to have the metals is in their physical state in your posession. Then there are the problems of security, and how to realise the value of them in a collapsed system. To do that you would have to be in the dealing circles, and if you are in one of them you will be a target for the criminal outsiders.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the event of a collapse, I would sooner have dried and tinned food to trade with
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would sooner have the food to eat.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather have food to eat, and MAYBE some to trade, than gold.

Stocks of food, water, fuel, boots, clothing, blankets, and other useful supplies are IMO much more likely to save your life than a stash of gold.

If however you already have doom stocks, then a little gold is worth considering. Not just for total collapse but in case of hyper-inflation, consider the situation in pre-war Germany as an example.

Gold could also be useful in time of war, revolution, civil war and the like. Consider the situation not that many years ago in Bosnia for example, or parts of Syria right now. A handful of gold could bribe someone to take you away from danger, or be used to buy a vehicle and fuel.

Gold is portable, non perishable and governments cant print more of it, but OTOH you cant eat it, nor will it keep you warm.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
In the event of a collapse, I would sooner have dried and tinned food to trade with


I would imagine that both will have a place, the metals for larger stores of value and the food for smaller transactions.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4264
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
In the event of a collapse, I would sooner have dried and tinned food to trade with

And some whisky.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 590
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could sell you all some potassium iodide when the war starts, 1 krugerrand each.
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snow hope



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 4105
Location: outside Belfast, N Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
I think having money in so called precious metals is an illusion, since the metals are "held" in an electronic record. The only way to have the metals is in their physical state in your posession. Then there are the problems of security, and how to realise the value of them in a collapsed system. To do that you would have to be in the dealing circles, and if you are in one of them you will be a target for the criminal outsiders.


I agree to an extent. But whilst BAU continues, there is money to be made in electronic trading.

It is also wise to have some physical in your possession. It is small in volume and is easily hidden with a little thought. I understand that when the severe problems occurred in the recent Argentinian crash, PMs were very useful for trading for all sorts of everyday requirements. Only in a very severe crash, will PMs become of little use.

In recent years the silver to gold ratio has been around 70:1. (meaning one can buy 70oz of Silver for 1oz of Gold!) Long term in the past this ratio has been closer to 20:1, meaning Silver is considerably under valued. Silver is pretty cheap to buy - under 20 per 1oz coin. These coins are very tradeable for food and supplies if/when a crash occurs. I think it makes sense to concentrate on some physical silver....

Gold is expensive - over 1000 for a 1oz coin - you need to have a lot of spare money to want to buy them! And even then it is questionable if it is sensible to acquire them as they have too much value for trading in day to day stuff. But they are a good way to hold a lot of wealth in a portable format. 10 Au coins - over 10k and maybe a lot more in the near future!

Finally if you had bought PMs prior to the sterling crash of the last few months, you would be up a lot! More proof that PMs hold their value whilst paper money (cash) just goes down and down in value.

PMs are currently in a dip and I predict they will be up a lot by year-end. Very Happy

PS Don't take any of the above as advise to buy or sell, these are just my amateur thoughts. Arrow
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9810
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a stash of the old silver British coins from when they were 47%, (I think) silver. I don't know if any have any rarity value with collectors, I should really look online, but they do have their value as silver, even if I have to melt them down.

Silver also has more industrial and health uses than gold. It's an anti bacterial agent so that would increase its value in emergencies. One reason that silver plates were used a lot by the well off.

Good advice on silver, Snow.
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 565
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:
These coins are very tradeable for food and supplies if/when a crash occurs. I think it makes sense to concentrate on some physical silver....


Surely that only works if people understand the value of silver coins (or that the coin even contains any!)? I guess this is where gold has the advantage...
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
The world's in a state of chassis. Not long to go now.

Just what is a "state of chassis"? Smile


Laughing

Quote:
After a brief conversation, Jack accidentally drops his last sixpence on the floor; he drunkenly mourns that "the whole world is in a terrible state o' chassis" before passing out.


From Juno and the Paycock by Sen O'Casey.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4264
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gold took a sharp drop today to $1128.90 US this is down $30 today and $110 lower then it was in Sept. 2016.
That is getting close to my target of $1000/ TZ where I might consider buying some.
At present all my precious metal is iron and steel painted John Deere Green. Laughing
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