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France to build more nuclear plants
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ujoni08



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: France to build more nuclear plants Reply with quote

http://www.energyefficiencynews.com/i/4218/

'Nikolas Sarkozy announced a 1 billion investment in a fourth generation of nuclear power stations on Monday, despite the growing tide of anti-nuclear feeling in Europe.

In the wake of the continuing nuclear crisis at Fukushima in Japan, the German government has vowed to phase out nuclear power, as has Switzerland, and earlier in the month Italian voters rejected a move to revive the countrys nuclear capacity.

The UK is one of the few remaining European countries maintaining its plans to ramp up nuclear power in coming years.

But Sarkozy said there was no alternative to nuclear power, although he did pledge an additional 1.35 billion for the development of solar and wind power.

Currently, France relies on its 58 nuclear power stations for almost 80% of its electricity needs and is a major exporter of nuclear power'.

Jon
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see that more money is going to the 'no alternative'. Smile
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energy-village



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: France to build more nuclear plants Reply with quote

ujoni08 wrote:
http://www.energyefficiencynews.com/i/4218/

The UK is one of the few remaining European countries maintaining its plans to ramp up nuclear power in coming years.


If the LibDems are against it and the Tories won't subsidise it I don't see how those plans can ever come about. Under Labour if they get a working majority at the next election?
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: France to build more nuclear plants Reply with quote

energy-village wrote:
If the LibDems are against it and the Tories won't subsidise it I don't see how those plans can ever come about.


Unclear has to be subsidised; it can't make money and provide affordable electrickery.

What it means is, they'll have to come up with other ways of describing subsidies though I sincerely hope the Brits - and any other nation - soon ends up too skint to pay for it. Tough innit? But the sensible choice is to be alive and non-cancerous, even if poor.
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energy-village



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely the private sector is not going to tie up vast quantities of valuable capital and risk unknown giant liabilities without the prospect of making a killing somehow?

Possibly a guaranteed minimum price for the electricity generated? Or the state to take on the bill for all clean ups and the government to pretend this isnt a subsidy?
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raspberry-blower



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energy-village wrote:


Possibly a guaranteed minimum price for the electricity generated? Or the state to take on the bill for all clean ups and the government to pretend this isnt a subsidy?


EV I think you'll find that the Carbon price floor that the Tories said they would introduce was designed to act as a price guarantee for nuclear (and other low carbon electricity generation sources).

As for the insurance for clean ups - given how quickly TEPCO has gone to being virtually bankrupt in around 3 months - the state will almost certainly intervene
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think EV was being Sarko (shurely "Sarky" _ed)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing nuclear power needs to make it commercially viable in this country is the return of capacity factor payments:

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18775
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But to deserve them (and for the payments to serve any useful purpose) nuclear would also need to be as flexible as the types of generators for which those type of payment are being proposed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as you well know (?), nuclear used to receive capacity payments before the introduction of NETA.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is one of the things that enabled it to get off the ground in the first place!

But now, the purpose of capacity payments has changed. And nuclear, as proposed in the UK, is nbg as a backup for the variable o/p of renewables.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be silly. Capacity payments made a first appearance in 1990 with the POOL rules.

Nuclear, as proposed in the UK, would be similar in steam arrangements to the French nuclear reactors and I have linked many times previously showing that are quite capable of load following.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Capacity payments made a first appearance in 1990 with the POOL rules.
true but irrelevant. Don't be silly.

The load following figures you quoted weren't very impressive compared with those of the proposed gas-fired power stations, though. And France, for its own reasons, doesn't have load-following issues anything like those in the UK.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if the introduction of capacity payments in 1990, some 32 years after the first nuclear power station started generation is now irrelevant then I take it that your claim that capacity payments
RenewableCandy wrote:
. . . enabled it to get off the ground in the first place!

is bunkum.

I'm not sure what on earth you mean by
RenewableCandy wrote:
The load following figures you quoted weren't very impressive compared with those of the proposed gas-fired power stations

What figures are those then? Speed of response, amount of generation devoted to load following? I'm not sure those sorts of figures have ever been given. But if you have them, especially for your vaunted load-following gas stations(!), then I'd be genuinely interested in seeing them.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New gas powered station figs were on another forum, not this one.
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