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Problems at EDF's French nuke site raise fears
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RGR
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="DominicJ"]

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
DominicJ wrote:
kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
You'll be too young to remember the 3-day week. Rolling blackouts were not genocidal; just a bit of grumbling about a favourite tv programme missed. Now we have the i-player.


Exactly, long term power cuts could certainly kill the ill prepared or unlucky.
But cuts for 3 hours at a time on a pre planned rota seem most unlikely to kill anyone except by freak accidents such as falling down the stairs in the dark, rather than perishing of the cold.

In the absence of any more detailed preps, surviving a 3 hour cut in cold weather simply means going to bed, preferably after taking hot food or drink, and with a hot water bottle if desired.

Depending on the time of day, one could go shopping or visit a public house, or a restaurant, or a friends house, that was still on.

In urban districts, the area affected at one time was fairly small, it was a short walk to an area still on.
In rural districts though, many many sqaure miles were blacked out. The intention was to ensure that each area contained very roughly the same amount of load.
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Bandidoz
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DominicJ wrote:
I'm entirely convinced there will not be rolling blackouts.
No government would possibly be that insane.

Erm, South Africa?......
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today we are more reliant on electricity than in the 70s, but I still doubt that power cuts would kill many.
If large scale cuts are likely, then the government could declare a state of emergency, as they did in the 70s. Energy saving would be enforced by law.
Some measures that could be taken include
Ban electric heating in leisure facilities.
Ban illuminated advertisments.
Prohibit all outdoor decorative lighting.
Ask the public to boycott busineses with lights on needlesly in daylight.
Prohibit or restrict daytime TV.
Use diesel or even steam locomotives to the greatest possible extent instead of electric trains.
Cancel very lightly used first and last electric trains, provide a bus instead.
Relax planning rules re use of diesel generating plant.
Relax rules on grid frequency control.
Prohibit use of incandescent lighting in shops.
Turn off some street lights.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, no doubt that kneejerk, short-term response is a very strong possibility, adam2, yet the answer is already here...
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DominicJ



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandidoz
South Africa is a one party state, and is building coal plants.....
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DominicJ wrote:
Bandidoz
South Africa is a one party state, and is building coal plants.....


Quote:
Members of the lower house are elected on a population basis by proportional representation: half of the members are elected from national lists and the other half are elected from provincial lists. Ten members are elected to represent each province in the National Council of Provinces, regardless of the population of the province. Elections for both chambers are held every five years. The government is formed in the lower house, and the leader of the majority party in the National Assembly is the President....

Since the end of apartheid in 1994, South African politics have been dominated by the African National Congress (ANC), which has been the dominant party with 6070% of the vote. The main challenger to the rule of the ANC is the Democratic Alliance party, which received 16.7% of the vote in the 2009 election and 14.8% in the 2006 election.
The formerly dominant New National Party, which introduced apartheid through its predecessor, the National Party, chose to merge with the ANC on 9 April 2005. Other major political parties represented in Parliament are the Congress of the People, which split from the ANC and won 7.4% of the vote in 2009, and the Inkatha Freedom Party, which mainly represents Zulu voters and took 4.6% of the vote in the 2009 election.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa#Government_and_politics



Quote:
Electricity crisis


Arnot power station
After unsuccessful attempts by the government to encourage private construction of power generation capacity, the state-owned power supplier Eskom started experiencing deficiency in capacity in the electrical generating and reticulation infrastructure in 2007. This lack led to an inability to meet the routine demands of industry and consumers, resulting in countrywide rolling blackouts. Initially, the lack of capacity was triggered by a failure at Koeberg nuclear power station, but a general lack of capacity due to increased demand then become evident. The supplier has been widely criticised for failing to adequately plan for and construct sufficient electrical generating capacity,[90] although ultimately the government admitted that it was at fault for refusing to approve funding for investment in infrastructure.

The crisis was resolved within a few months, but the margin between national demand and available capacity is still low (particularly in peak hours), and power stations are under strain, such that another phase of rolling blackouts is probable if parts of the supply are halted for whatever reason. The government and Eskom are currently planning new power stations. The power utility plans to have 20,000 megawatts of nuclear power in its grid by 2025


Eskom New Build Programme: http://www.eskom.co.za/c/article/53/new-build-programme/
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mr brightside



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DominicJ wrote:
Although it is much too late to go nuclear to replace the coal plants, they will remain, and likely we will see an increasing number of coal plants, built quickly rather than efficiently.


My comment on going nuclear was sort of more general than specific. If there is a substantial liklihood of a shortfall as you suggest perhaps it might be an option to postpone the decommissioning of Oldbury and Wyfla which are due to bite the dust in 2012, and maybe Hinkley Point B and Hunterston B which are due in 2016; providing of course that they meet current safety criteria. Having said that i'm sure someone could counter that with reasons why they should close, my angle is a pretty easy one to adopt!

If closing existing nuclear facilities is necessary, then perhaps contractors should start pitching for our business. Are there any other companies who could bring EDF's date of 2020 forward to meet our needs a bit better?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope!
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr brightside wrote:
DominicJ wrote:
Today, and in 2013, when the power might actually go out, a large number of houses will have a single source of heat during a black out, many will not even have that.


How convinced are you that rolling blackouts might be a reality in the future? Surely it'll be stuff EU targets or go nuclear?


But it would take ten years to roll out the first nuke and possibly longer for the second because there are supply restrictions on the steelwork for the pressure vessels.
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RGR
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kenneal"

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The military support for your oil wars may not be significant but the political support is. Withdrawing that could leave you exposed.

We have recently improved our ability to import and distribute gas and LNG. Not sure what proportion of our gas use could be imported though. Do you know Chris Vernon?
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RGR
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kenneal"]

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iraq? Short term memory loss?
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RGR
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kenneal"

Last edited by RGR on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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