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An Inspector Calls
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eatyourveg
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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Location: uk
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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That's weather. Global warming is a bit different  .
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featherstick
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Gosh. Snow in winter.
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An Inspector Calls
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An Inspector Calls
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ujoni08
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 829
Location: Stroud Gloucestershire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: AGW |
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AIC, could you set out your case for AGW scepticism in some detail, please. Attention! This is not an attack on you! I'm interested. For a start, do you accept that there is a correlation in the historical record between atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature? That could be a starting point.
Perhaps we could start an open discussion about this, or has it been done to death already? What do others feel?
We may want to include orbital variations, ocean variability, solar output, volcanic activity, plate tectonics and human influence, but also the evidence from glaciers, vegetation, pollen, rainfall, dendro-climatology, ice cores, fauna, arctic sea ice, sea level changes, the instrumental temperature record, etc.
Jon |
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:35 am Post subject: |
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We had a cold snap last winter while the Arctic was extremely warm, 26C above average in places, for the time of year. On average the climate was warmer.
This debate will be settled in my mind over the next thirty years as the cooling sun should cause a drop in average temperatures by about 1.6C. while global warming is contributing 0.8C at the moment. We should see a drop in average temperatures of about 0.8C as a result. The predicted Maunder Minimum should only be a Sporer Minimum.
We need to drastically reduce our fuel imports to improve our financial state, to reduce fuel poverty and to compensate for increasing fuel prices so whether or not PO and CC/GW exist or not isn't worth arguing over really. The mitigation for all three is virtually the same except for the reopening of coal mines. There are very good environmental reasons for not reopening coal mines apart from the CC/GW ones so why no just implement the drastic fuel saving measures anyway.
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It is very, very, very serious indeed. This is the big one!" Professor Tim Lang, APPGOPO, 25/03/08. And he was talking about food, not oil or the economy! |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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Strawman, anybody?
Absolutely typical climate-change-denialist nonsense. You see it is unusually cold somewhere, and start spewing about climate change not being real (no actual facts/arguments mind you, just spewing ridicule). All you are doing is proving to the world that you don't understand the topic.
Last edited by UndercoverElephant on Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| kenneal wrote: | We had a cold snap last winter while the Arctic was extremely warm, 26C above average in places, for the time of year. On average the climate was warmer.
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Exactly. And if we look at weather in the southern hemisphere right now, we will doubtless discover that somewhere that is usually very cold right now is unseasonally warm. But the denialists don't bother thinking about it that hard, or doing any relevant research, because they've already made their minds up that climate change is not real. |
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An Inspector Calls
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| UndercoverElephant wrote: |
Strawman, anybody?
Absolutely typical climate-change-denialist nonsense. You see it is unusually cold somewhere, and start spewing about climate change not being real (no actual facts/arguments mind you, just spewing ridicule). All you are doing is proving to the world that you don't understand the topic. |
I quite agree
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056 |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| An Inspector Calls wrote: | | UndercoverElephant wrote: |
Strawman, anybody?
Absolutely typical climate-change-denialist nonsense. You see it is unusually cold somewhere, and start spewing about climate change not being real (no actual facts/arguments mind you, just spewing ridicule). All you are doing is proving to the world that you don't understand the topic. |
I quite agree
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056 |
Ah, so when there's a heatwave all over the northern hemisphere and it is globally the warmest year on record that's not evidence that climate change is happening, but when there's one cold snap in one place in the southern hemisphere, that is evidence that climate change isn't happening, right?
Your double standards are stinking the board out. You don't know what you are talking about.
Shall we try the MacG "climate change bullshitter test"?
Do you believe greenhouse warming occurs on Venus? |
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An Inspector Calls
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| UndercoverElephant wrote: | | An Inspector Calls wrote: | | UndercoverElephant wrote: |
Strawman, anybody?
Absolutely typical climate-change-denialist nonsense. You see it is unusually cold somewhere, and start spewing about climate change not being real (no actual facts/arguments mind you, just spewing ridicule). All you are doing is proving to the world that you don't understand the topic. |
I quite agree
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056 |
Ah, so when there's a heatwave all over the northern hemisphere and it is globally the warmest year on record that's not evidence that climate change is happening, but when there's one cold snap in one place in the southern hemisphere, that is evidence that climate change isn't happening, right?
Your double standards are stinking the board out. You don't know what you are talking about.
Shall we try the MacG "climate change bullshitter test"?
Do you believe greenhouse warming occurs on Venus? |
No, I think my point is very clear - perhaps not to you - neither short-term warming events nor cold events signify anything (or very, very little) in terms of climate. But the reaction to my post of a cold event here is striking - compare that to the cosy reactions to warming events:
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18782
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17229
It's a classic confirmation of the denialist taunt: If it's cold, it's weather, if it's hot, it's climate. |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5839
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| An Inspector Calls wrote: | | UndercoverElephant wrote: | | An Inspector Calls wrote: | | UndercoverElephant wrote: |
Strawman, anybody?
Absolutely typical climate-change-denialist nonsense. You see it is unusually cold somewhere, and start spewing about climate change not being real (no actual facts/arguments mind you, just spewing ridicule). All you are doing is proving to the world that you don't understand the topic. |
I quite agree
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056 |
Ah, so when there's a heatwave all over the northern hemisphere and it is globally the warmest year on record that's not evidence that climate change is happening, but when there's one cold snap in one place in the southern hemisphere, that is evidence that climate change isn't happening, right?
Your double standards are stinking the board out. You don't know what you are talking about.
Shall we try the MacG "climate change bullshitter test"?
Do you believe greenhouse warming occurs on Venus? |
No, I think my point is very clear - perhaps not to you - neither short-term warming events nor cold events signify anything (or very, very little) in terms of climate. But the reaction to my post of a cold event here is striking - compare that to the cosy reactions to warming events:
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19056
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18782
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17229
It's a classic confirmation of the denialist taunt: If it's cold, it's weather, if it's hot, it's climate. |
You've got it precisely backwards. The denialists like to point to outliers - localised weather events which buck the trend. They do exactly what you do have done in this thread - one cold snap in one place and you start crowing about how climate change is nonsense. They also like to accuse the people who believe climate change is real of doing exactly what they do, even though those believers are not doing anything of the sort. The FACTS are that average global temperatures are rising, year on year, to levels higher than any in recorded history.
Of course, the brighter ones eventually figure out that this pathetic strategy doesn't actually convince many people and they then switch to claiming that although the global warming is real, it isn't caused by humans. Finally, if they get to the point of realising that this is probably bullshit also, they start claiming that there are other reasons for believing that the world is going to get colder soon, so there's still no justification for worrying about global warming.
ANYTHING but accept they might have a moral responsibility to do something about it. |
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An Inspector Calls
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Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 965
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| UndercoverElephant wrote: | | You've got it precisely backwards. The denialists like to point to outliers - localised weather events which buck the trend. |
Not on the evidence of the number of threads here pointing towards short-term warming events and construing global warming. |
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UndercoverElephant
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5839
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming New Zealand style! |
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| An Inspector Calls wrote: | | UndercoverElephant wrote: | | You've got it precisely backwards. The denialists like to point to outliers - localised weather events which buck the trend. |
Not on the evidence of the number of threads here pointing towards short-term warming events and construing global warming. |
Global average temperatures are rising year-on-year. Everything else is noise, and deliberate attempts to muddy the water. |
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