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Companies going bankrupt/into administration
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 947
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Looks as though the end is near for Carillion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42675427


Surely they are too big to fail?
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4646
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Looks as though the end is near for Carillion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42675427


Surely they are too big to fail?

Not much information there about how a company that big and on so many different government teats is losing money?
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 947
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Looks as though the end is near for Carillion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42675427


Surely they are too big to fail?

Not much information there about how a company that big and on so many different government teats is losing money?


It sounds as if a lot of money may have "mysteriously" sailed over the event horizon....
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1584

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
Going?

Carillion in crisis as contract bungles £845m deal



Six months on this looks increasingly likely

Quote:
The loss, which sparked the first of three profit warnings, was blamed on an £845m hit taken on contracts that were rendered unprofitable by rising labour and raw material costs.

The downturn has left the business facing a £900m debt pile that dwarfs the value of the company, forcing it to go cap in hand to lenders in the hope of agreeing a restructuring of its finances


Guardian: Carillion Crisis - fears Government contractor on verge of collapse

What this highlights is the folly of the "Neoliberal doctrine" that private companies and private finance can do things better and more cheaply whilst maintaining a good quality service. You can perm 2 out of 3 but not all 3!

The rules of the game are thus:
The cheapest bidder wins - irrespective of whether or not it is the best value for money,
This process puts monetary value above all else, even if it actually endangers life (see the Grenfell Tower disaster for details)

That is it.

What has happened in many council and Government contracts is that bidding companies - such as Carillion - would discount certain aspects of their bids or chronically squeeze their subcontractors in order to secure contracts. Then there would be the inevitable cost overruns that have resulted from delays in procurement, delivery, etc

These projects come in either behind schedule or massively over the original costs quoted - quite frequently both.

A failure of this magnitude is inevitable
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
A failure of this magnitude is inevitable

If the state runs everything you still have failures, but they tend to be hidden.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3686

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s ok, at least the taxpayers are not feather-bedding the so called risk-takers and their shareholders. As for the pension fund investors, it’s high time they stopped paying fast and loose with peoples money aided by clumsy politicians such as Gordon Brown.

Virgin is now running away from the east coast trains as they can’t screw enough money, whereas it turned a decent income when it was publicly owned.


Last edited by woodburner on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the FT (Link doesn't require subscription) https://outline.com/ydKWa4.
Quote:
Carillion lenders reject restructuring plan, call for government to step in


Banks crying to the government - "We don't want to lose or risk our money - bail us out". What's the betting that this happens?
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snouts either in trough or up arses.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
As for the pension fund investors, it’s high time they stopped paying fast and loose with peoples money aided by clumsy politicians such as Gordon Brown.

The pensions issue arises from defined benefits pensions underwritten by the company. As interest rates go down the pension fund goes into deficit.

That is why many companies no longer offer defined benefits pension funds.
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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10308
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
From the FT (Link doesn't require subscription) https://outline.com/ydKWa4.
Quote:
Carillion lenders reject restructuring plan, call for government to step in


Banks crying to the government - "We don't want to lose or risk our money - bail us out". What's the betting that this happens?


Cubes, that link only takes me to the Outline front page which then requests the original URL for the FT article. Can you provide that please?
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having lived through the era of nationalised companies in the UK I can remember just why most people were quite happy to see everything nationalised. They were just awful and were even worse when we had a Labour government as the "workers" expected "there own" government to line their pockets when they were voted in! When Labour didn't they went on strike so we went from bad service to no service at all.

We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other as suggested in the Archdruid blog quoted elsewhere on this forum. I await someone who can come up with a way of working which gives workers a fair wage, customers a good service and which doesn't cost a fortune. Both Socialism and Capitalism seem unable to achieve all three at once.
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cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link is https://www.ft.com/content/8b500eee-a615-3727-8b5c-2c0ba8376a07

copy and paste that into outline.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5364
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carillon liquidated.
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kenneal - lagger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10308
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
The link is https://www.ft.com/content/8b500eee-a615-3727-8b5c-2c0ba8376a07

copy and paste that into outline.


Thanks, Cubes.
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1584

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's gone!

BBC: Carillion goes into receivership
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