PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

aah...what's next?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Ireland
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: aah...what's next? Reply with quote

About six or seven days ago, to SWMBO, I uttered the line, "They're working on new ways to take money off people; I expect a new 'charge' or 'levy' any time now."

Sure enough, the latest I've heard about is a 'broadcaster' charge.

This is because the national broadcaster, RT, is losing around 25 mill. per annum. So they've mooted the idea of a new charge, to apply to every household, regardless of whether there's a tv in the house or not, and would replace the licence fee (160 at the mom).

RT is a commercial station so it might be argued that the licence fee is a private sector subsidy. Also, if they can't make money when the bulk of households pay 160 and (presumably) advertisers contribute, then what is going to be a figure that makes RT break even? And why can't it be privatised - it doesn't compare with services such as the post office or grid, which are up for selling off?

As someone who has never had a tv, I'm working on my response to this.

So as to make it relevant to PS, I'm also going to connect it to PO somehow. Wink
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I know what might be the next tax/levy/charge/duty/tribute/toll that our leaders and betters are plotting - compelling all households to subscribe to a bin collection service.

Refuse collection is largely privatised in Ireland but only around 58% of households use such services; many visit council-run recycling sites instead; others just dump their unwanted goods.

Forcing people to pay money to these private businesses is one way of, ahem, 'kick-starting' the economy, which we all know is rubbish. Wink
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30th January 2012: another 6 billion to be syphoned from pockets.

Last Night the Government Signed Up to 6 Billion More in Austerity Measures

Quote:
Under current strategy, the Government will be introducing 8.6 billion in spending cuts and tax increases over the next three years. Now they are making a commitment to take on board nearly 6 billion more fiscal adjustments to reach this new structural deficit target - a 66 percent increase in austerity measures.


This is a country where there are 26 (official and conservative figure) unemployed to each job vacancy. Where there are possibly as few as 1.8 million income tax payers. 6 billion (and it could be more, even on top of the promised 8.6 billion) equates to about 3,300 per income tax payer or about 1,400 per citizen.

The liars in government just handed over 1.25 billion to unsecured bondholders, some of whom are thought to be not the original bondholders at all but who bought the bonds at a discount, speculating on Ireland, with another 3.5 billion going to the troika in March.

Watch this space - because soon, that's all you'll see.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better. At least then there could be a new start rather than what you've got at the moment, which is a tunnel with no light at the end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.


I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.

I wanted to stand in front of someone saying "no, you will not hand over this money". Crying or Very sad You gambled, you lost, tough.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.


I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.


Which nation?

I think the Irish are just biding their time. Everybody is waiting to find out what happens to Greece, which will go first. Depending on what happens there, everything will change elsewhere. That's why there's so much confusion and uncertainty about what will happen to Greece. It is not actually the Greek default itself that matters, because it is too small compared to the entire eurozone GDP. What matters is the precedent that is set.

So perhaps another question is "How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?" Is it going to have to cede territory? Sell ancient monuments? Accept even more austerity when its social fabric is already torn to shreds, even though this isn't going to solve any problems? I'm struggling to see what penalties can realistically be imposed on them that are so harsh that others won't demand to follow. By "realistically" I mean that any attempt to, say, seize Greek territory, will result in catastrophic civil unrest and maybe even a military coup or civil war. There's only so far you can push people before they explode.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.


I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.


Which nation?


Naturally, I'm thinking of Ireland and, as I say, I can't it happening. Still, your question:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
"How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?"


is a good one; being booted out of the EU doesn't seem such a terrible fate, if it means resetting debts. But will it?

I'm not convinced the Irish (government) are biding their time, particularly, though there is an element of that in it. It seems more like they're bending over backwards to please their masters, to show the world that ordinary people will accept whatever's thrown at them, if you make them feel guilty enough. America's a good example of it and Ireland can be a great admirer of things American.

Anyway, this terrible fate for Greece. Something to ponder upon. Shocked Confused Just how much can they take before they explode? What's the hair trigger moment?
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8632
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.


I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.


Which nation?


Naturally, I'm thinking of Ireland and, as I say, I can't it happening. Still, your question:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
"How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?"


is a good one; being booted out of the EU doesn't seem such a terrible fate, if it means resetting debts. But will it?


Yes, by one means or another.

http://ciovaccocapital.com/wordpress/index.php/currencies/bbc-source-merkel-greece-will-default/

Quote:

Note the ongoing mention of Greece being a special case in an attempt to stem the almost inevitable tide of contagion. As we showed graphically on January 27, the ever-increasing yield on Portuguese bonds is indicative of a market that also believes Portugal will be a special case.






Quote:

I'm not convinced the Irish (government) are biding their time, particularly, though there is an element of that in it. It seems more like they're bending over backwards to please their masters, to show the world that ordinary people will accept whatever's thrown at them, if you make them feel guilty enough. America's a good example of it and Ireland can be a great admirer of things American.

Anyway, this terrible fate for Greece. Something to ponder upon. Shocked Confused Just how much can they take before they explode? What's the hair trigger moment?


Nobody knows. All anybody knows is that the pressure is cranking up all the time, and that this cannot continue for much longer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 13968
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Portugals government has said it will not ask for relief and points out that voters at the last election overwhelmingly backed parties championing austerity.


Hang on, that sounds like hogwash to me. Socrates lost over proposed austerity measures.
_________________
"Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren’t lesser beings, they’re just like us. So I say fụck the Buddhists" - Bjork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Ireland All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group