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The peak oil crisis: cold fusion update

 
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: The peak oil crisis: cold fusion update Reply with quote

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2012-01-19/peak-oil-crisis-cold-fusion-update

Quote:
There have been enough developments in the cold fusion story during the last two weeks to warrant revisiting the subject. For those of you who came in late, cold fusion, also known as Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR), is a phenomenon in which hydrogen, under proper conditions, is combined with palladium or nickel to produce heat. If the reaction can be developed to the point at which it makes lots of heat safely, then the world will change forever as the ingredients for the process and the costs of the reactor appears to be very inexpensive. The process leaves behind no adverse products such as greenhouse gases, ionizing radiation, radioactive waste or even ash.

Should the phenomenon prove economically viable, it has the potential of eliminating the need to burn fossil fuels for heat, light, industry, and transportation. In short LENR seems too good to be true and therein is the problem, for there is much skepticism that a new way of energy that has the potential to render all other forms of energy production - oil, coal, gas, wind, solar, biofuels -- obsolete can possibly be real.

Leaving aside for the moment the sometimes acrimonious debate that is going on between true believers in the phenomenon and the hard-core skeptics and the lack of mainstream media coverage, let's review some recent developments. Last week at a meeting of the UN's World Sustainable Energy Conference in Geneva representatives of the International Society for Condensed Matter Nuclear Science gave presentations on the state of research on the LENR-Cold Fusion phenomenon. In short, numerous scientists from all over the world have conducted experiments in which they observed excess heat coming from combining either palladium or nickel with hydrogen. These reactions have been repeated many times and cross-verified by other labs, so there is now little doubt that the cold fusion or LENR can really take place.

In the hindsight of years of experiments we have learned two things about this phenomenon. The first insight is that getting the reaction to occur is more difficult than thought 23 years ago. This is the reason why other labs were unable to reproduce the Pons-Fleischman experiments that caused so much excitement back in 1989, leading to the whole concept being pronounced a failure. The second discovery is that the reaction seems to be different from the fusion of hydrogen or deuterium into helium that takes place in the sun or a hydrogen bomb. This suggests that endless comments from physicists that "fusion" can only take place at extremely high temperatures are missing the point. Critics are comparing apples with oranges.

With LENR we seem to be dealing with a new natural phenomenon which is not as yet understood although there are numerous theories which attempt to describe what seems to be happening. These theories involve the dense mathematics of nuclear theory and are for the most part incomprehensible to the layman.


Long-ish article on cold fusion...
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hodson2k9



Joined: 21 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

missed this! ive actually read it already, and thought it was a well written and balanced article on the current situation regarding LENR.

+1 for posting it LB3, the more people that follow the story the better chance of it being successful i say, surprised the skeptics havent bashed you though.
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hodson2k9



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.opednews.com/articles/Cold-Fusion-is-Here-It-s-by-steve-windisch-120202-446.html
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All well and good until:

Quote:

With LENR we seem to be dealing with a new natural phenomenon which is not as yet understood although there are numerous theories which attempt to describe what seems to be happening.


Sorry, but I think this is bullshit. If it turns out to be real then that is all well and good, but at the moment all we have is a claim about a "new natural phenomenon" which is "not yet understood" and numerous theories which "attempt to describe what seems to be happening."

When those weasel words start being replaced with actual science, then I'll take it seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
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hodson2k9



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
All well and good until:

Quote:

With LENR we seem to be dealing with a new natural phenomenon which is not as yet understood although there are numerous theories which attempt to describe what seems to be happening.


Sorry, but I think this is bullshit. If it turns out to be real then that is all well and good, but at the moment all we have is a claim about a "new natural phenomenon" which is "not yet understood" and numerous theories which "attempt to describe what seems to be happening."

When those weasel words start being replaced with actual science, then I'll take it seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word


depends what you mean by claim? if you are referring to a finished and comercially viable LENR product (ie rossis e-cat) then i will agree with you 100%, however if you are reffering to LENR itself (ie succesful experiments in the labrotary) then i would dis-agree with you and say go look at the hundreds of sucessful scientific papers submitted from reputable scientists, all showing succesful LENR reactions in the lab making it more than a claim.

secondly isnt most new technology/science, not fully understood at the start? just because scientists cant quite understand something doesnt mean its not real, for eg we dont quite understand dark matter yet but we know it exists, and all this business with the higs-boson etc. yes there are numerous different theories for LENR but that just means different scientists have different opinions on what is happening, to me it is a good thing as it has gone from being 'impossible' to having several different theories try explain what is happening, im sure there have been numerous theories on other scientific matters in the past, untill one theroy has finnally been settled on, and im sure LENR will one day after alot more research have theroy that most of the scientific world can agree on.

as ive said before imo LENR is 100% real just like hot fusion is, however i remain un-convinced as to weather it can become a commercialy and beneficial technology to humans, as you said if it can then great, personally i very much doubt it, as even if it could be, i reckon it would get surpressed from TPTB, but still i will follow the events and hope for the best.
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hodson2k9 wrote:

secondly isnt most new technology/science, not fully understood at the start?


Depends what you are talking about. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Quote:

just because scientists cant quite understand something


Weasel words.

Quote:

doesnt mean its not real, for eg we dont quite understand dark matter yet but we know it exists,


Actually, we don't know that "dark matter" exists. All we know is that something is wrong with our current theories about about how the universe works if it doesn't exist. The term "dark matter" is just a place-holder - a codeword for a missing theory. And we certainly can't build any technologies based on a missing science.

Quote:

and all this business with the higs-boson etc.


Ditto. We might yet find a Higgs Boson. It may also turn out that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist and we have to start again with our physical theories, just as we had to when the "black body radiation" problem turned out to be not merely a loose end in classical physics, but the doorway to an entirely new sort of physics.
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hodson2k9



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok then, so maybe the reason, scientists are having trouble understanding LENR, using our current model of physics, is because there is missing science.
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hodson2k9 wrote:
ok then, so maybe the reason, scientists are having trouble understanding LENR, using our current model of physics, is because there is missing science.


Maybe, yes. All we have at the moment is an anomalous scientific result. Those can look like "loose ends", and sometimes they are, but sometimes they lead to the downfall of the existing paradigm.

My own suspicion is that there is indeed something fundamental wrong with our understanding of mass and gravity, and I'd even go further and say that whatever it is that is wrong is also preventing us from finding a quantum theory of gravity. But that's speculation...
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice theory that someone hopes to test soon is that anti-matter produces anti-gravity - that matter and anti-matter repel each other.

Then, if there were areas of deep space filled with diffuse anti-matter, this might eplain (ekz key is broken on my keyboard) dark energy - and why the epansion of the universe is accelerating.
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Ludwig



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
All well and good until:

Quote:

With LENR we seem to be dealing with a new natural phenomenon which is not as yet understood although there are numerous theories which attempt to describe what seems to be happening.


Sorry, but I think this is bullshit. If it turns out to be real then that is all well and good, but at the moment all we have is a claim about a "new natural phenomenon" which is "not yet understood" and numerous theories which "attempt to describe what seems to be happening."

When those weasel words start being replaced with actual science, then I'll take it seriously.



Eh? Weasel words? I don't see how the phrases "not yet understood" or "attempt to describe what seems to be happening" represent anything other than pure scientific method. If certainties were being implied, THEN I would be suspicious.
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Ludwig



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
hodson2k9 wrote:
ok then, so maybe the reason, scientists are having trouble understanding LENR, using our current model of physics, is because there is missing science.


Maybe, yes. All we have at the moment is an anomalous scientific result. Those can look like "loose ends", and sometimes they are, but sometimes they lead to the downfall of the existing paradigm.

My own suspicion is that there is indeed something fundamental wrong with our understanding of mass and gravity, and I'd even go further and say that whatever it is that is wrong is also preventing us from finding a quantum theory of gravity. But that's speculation...


Some suggest that everything since Einstein has been a theoretical red herring, that the ether exists after all and that it accounts for "zero-point energy" and "dark matter". We really must bear in mind that "dark matter" is a euphemism for "something completely unexplained that accounts for 95% of reality".
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hodson2k9



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-02/27/rossi-roundup?page=all

LENR starting to get more mainstream talk i see.
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hodson2k9



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece

interesting lets see if the greek government come out and confirm defkalions claims.
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