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Greece Watch...
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they will now refuse to follow the bailout programme. Syriza have done well to only lose a few percentage votes and I would not be surprised to see them in a deal with ANEL again.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/20/syriza-set-to-return-to-power-in-greek-general-election
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Little John



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
I don't think they will now refuse to follow the bailout programme. Syriza have done well to only lose a few percentage votes and I would not be surprised to see them in a deal with ANEL again.
The terms imposed by the Troika will be now much reduced in severity due to the increasingly fragile political environment in the EU and a consequent desperation on the part of the EU project designers to not do anything to give it the final push towards collapse. Though, the official narrative will be that Greece has "seen sense".
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
The terms imposed by the Troika will be now much reduced in severity due to the increasingly fragile political environment in the EU and a consequent desperation on the part of the EU project designers to not do anything to give it the final push towards collapse. Though, the official narrative will be that Greece has "seen sense".

It will be interesting to see in a few months time if there is any change.

I don't think there will.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://europeangreens.eu/news/greek-elections-now-put-debt-relief-table

Quote:
Monica Frassoni and Reinhard Btikofer, Co-Chairs of the European Green Party, comment on the outcome of the Greek elections:

First of all, we would like to congratulate our friends from Oikologoi Prasinoi, the European Green Partys Greek member, which ran in coalition with Syriza and will be represented by two MPs, Yorgos Dimaras and Yannis Tsironis, in the new Parliament. We know that, even in tough economic times, the Greek Greens will keep pushing forward a Green agenda in the Parliament. The Green path to economic recovery is the only viable and durable solution to this economic, social and environmental crisis.

Secondly, Europe must take note of the fact that the majority of Greek voters gave a new mandate to Syriza, who: fought to get the best deal obtainable; accepted the Third Memorandum; promised to break with the old system; and put the necessity of debt relief back on the table. Europe should acknowledge the political maturity that Greek people are demonstrating, and provide the necessary assistance to reduce the negative effects of the MoU, which remains an unfair deal.

Such a low turnout in a country where voting is mandatory is also a clear signal that Europe should heed: do not play too close to the edge, we are doing our part, help us by doing yours. The new government has to deliver painful results on the agreed reforms. Now its Europes turn to go beyond the word austerity with the words green growth and debt relief, the last one a necessity that even the IMF recognised in July.

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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras will reappoint Euclid Tsakalotos as finance minister, a senior source in his leftist Syriza party said on Tuesday, to offer continuity in bailout talks with international lenders.

Tsakalotos, a low-key Oxford-trained Marxist economist, helped steer bailout discussions with Greece's creditors that produced an 86 billion euro loan accord with Athens in August.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/22/us-eurozone-greece-cabinet-idUSKCN0RM0L320150922
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Tarrel



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greek Cash Ban Escalates: 'Permanent' Stricter "Capital Controls" On 3 Million Pensioners, Civil Servants Imposed

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-12/greek-cash-ban-escalates-imposes-permanent-stricter-capital-controls-3-million-pensi

Quote:
As KeepTakingGreece.com reports,

A shock-measure: civil servants and pensioners will be subject to stricter capital controls than the rest of the Greeks. They will be able to withdraw only 150 per week with the cash withdrawal cap being 420 per week that is a total of 600 per month. The rest of their wage or pension they will have to spend by using debit or credit card.

The news fell like a bombshell on Saturday evening and spoiled the weekend of millions of Greeks. It will probably spoil the rest of their lives too.

Greek media revealed, that the Finance Ministry plans to impose such a measure in order to combat tax evasion, but of course, not the tax evasion committed by the civil servants and pensioners as this is not possible as the state deducts their share on tax before they receive wages and pensions but the tax evasion committed by business owners.

According to the Finance Ministry plan, civil servants and pensioners will be able to withdraw in cash only part of their wages and pensions and the rest will have to remain in their bank deposit account. This remaining amount they will have to spend only through the compulsory use of debit or credit card.


I wonder if you can get cash-back at supermarket tills in Greece?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt that that would be very popular with the supermarket owners. If they have to give the customers cash it reduces the amount that they can hide away from the tax man.

I read a piece from MoneyWeek.com that says that the government and bankers will try and get rid of all cash transactions, actually ban them. It has the advantage for the government that they have complete control over all money - no cash, no black economy - and the banks like it because they have all our money to play with. The government can also then control how much money we have to spend and where we spend it! Nasty thought that!!

Seems like 1984 was about right except for the date.
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Tarrel



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If they have to give the customers cash it reduces the amount that they can hide away from the tax man.


Good point! Smile
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
I read a piece from MoneyWeek.com that says that the government and bankers will try and get rid of all cash transactions, actually ban them.


This has been pretty obvious for some time. It will happen.

F'r instance, it can sometimes be awkward to not have a bank account. Rolling Eyes
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A review of actual living standards across Europe

Unsurprisingly, the PIGS countries are well below average.
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johnhemming2



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, these sorts of figures don't tell you anything either about quality of life or how difficult things are for people in different parts of society.

Furthermore the assumption that continuing increases in consumption per capita are possible is something that I am not sure most of the readers of this forum would agree with.

When I dealt with about 20 bosnian refugees in the early 90s all were clearly in fear of persecution, but some decided to return because they didn't like the housing association properties they were allocated.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wikileaks has revealed a conversation between the two top IMF officials in charge of the Greek debt crisis, Poul Thomsen, head of the IMFs European department, and Delia Velculescu, IMF mission chief for Greece. The details of the conversation, which were obtained from the organization about a month ago, show how the IMF will push EU and Greece to succumb to its demands. Heres the full report as was published by Wikileaks:

Today, 2nd April 2016, WikiLeaks publishes the records of a 19 March 2016 teleconference between the top two IMF officials in charge of managing the Greek debt crisis Poul Thomsen, the head of the IMFs European Department, and Delia Velkouleskou, the IMF Mission Chief for Greece. The IMF anticipates a possible Greek default co-inciding with the United Kingdoms referendum on whether it should leave the European Union (Brexit).

This is going to be a disaster remarks Velkouleskou in the meeting.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/04/02/wikileaks-imf-threatens-to-leave-troika-ahead-of-greek-disaster/
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raspberry-blower



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Mason's take on this story

Paul Mason wrote:
It is the whole of Europe, in other words, that the IMF is conspiring to hit with the shock doctrine.

Its clear from the transcript that the IMF has become a playground for neoliberal fantasists.

To fantasise about inflicting yet another near bankruptcy on a teetering democracy reveals levels of insouciance about the welfare of human beings and the sovereignty of states incompatible with a democratic organisation.

It proves, yet again, that the core of the economic doctrine that guides the global elite is the determination not to give a shit about real people, but to impose the doctrine even at the cost of state failure.

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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
However, these sorts of figures don't tell you anything either about quality of life or how difficult things are for people in different parts of society.

Furthermore the assumption that continuing increases in consumption per capita are possible is something that I am not sure most of the readers of this forum would agree with.

When I dealt with about 20 bosnian refugees in the early 90s all were clearly in fear of persecution, but some decided to return because they didn't like the housing association properties they were allocated.


When I first went to Greece in the early 70s and again in the 80s just before they joined the EU the cost of living there was very low and underpinned by low property prices. Low property prices meant that shop and especially restaurant overheads were low and prices were therefore cheaper. Because Greece wasn't in the EU it meant that they could and did control who bought property in Greece and they could guard their low property prices. Income was also low but because property prices were low they have quite a good standard of living. "Effective" taxation was also low which helped!

When they joined the EU the protection of property was lost and the masses invaded from Northern Europe buying up property as they came and causing massive inflation in property prices and rentals and therefore cost to local businesses. Those cost were passed onto the Greek people as well as tourists. The tourists then went on to Turkey, outside the EU, where costs were still much cheaper. The Greek people were hit with a double whammy and now we expect them to pay their taxes as well; all for a much lower standard of living!! If I were Greek I would rue the day that they joined the EU.
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