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Spain Watch, and Catalan independance
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This appeared in a comments section:

Quote:
I often got sense that Catalans’ desire for independence was as much about not wanting to be part of Spain as wanting to be their own country. There’s a sneering antipathy throughout Spain for Catalunya – and everyone’s aware of it. Even left-leaning liberal Spaniards I know, who go with every right-on cause going, change their demeanour when Catalunya is mentioned. There’s footage doing the rounds of crowds cheering the Guardia Civil as they headed off from their Andalucian bases last week for Catalunya – with chants urging the police to give the Catalans the beating they deserve [https://youtu.be/pZJFvy-_L0c]. In my personal experience, this is representative of how the rest of Spain feels. It makes sense in every way except for economics to let them go.


[My bold]
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AutomaticEarth



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Jazeera had a report just now saying that at least 100 cars in a town called Verges in Catalonia had all their tyres slashed. It' being blamed on 'far-right activists' but the locals are not so sure......
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament

Quote:
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.


Where we are at..
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emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
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Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raspberry-blower wrote:
Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament

Quote:
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.


Where we are at..


Great article, thanks r-b.
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oobers



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Hebden Bridge

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
raspberry-blower wrote:
Resilience: What happened when Degrowth was discussed at the Catalan Parliament

Quote:
However the debate about de-growth, so crucial at this moment in time, has been completely overlooked in the midst of this informative whirlwind which has been occasioned by the tense and chaotic approval of the Catalan laws about its referendum and separation. So as we were saying, daily conflicts prevent us from seeing and understanding the processes we are following, to the point where we are incapable of recognizing collapse.


Where we are at..


Great article, thanks r-b.

In the video of the debate linked in the footnotes - https://www.parlament.cat/web/canal-parlament/sequencia/videos/index.html?p_cp1=8102705&p_cp3=8105387 - one side of the chamber empties before Saladié opens his speech. I'm guessing it's the side that needs to hear it!

This is the frustrating conversation most of us have had several times over with someone in the pub, only somewhere more formal.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116


They claim they have imposed direct rule. This looks like the biggest political crisis in Europe since the formation of the EU.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends in the end on who pays the bills. If Madrid holds the purse strings they will be able to control the situation.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Catalan parliament declares independence.
Meanwhile the Spanish government are talking about imposing direct rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116


They claim they have imposed direct rule. This looks like the biggest political crisis in Europe since the formation of the EU.


...and may distract Brussels from Brexit, which may or may not be a good thing!
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is hard to see what independence means in a modern state. No armed forces, no international recognition, no border controls, it really boils down to domestic law making and taxation. If the banks refuse to cooperate then it is just sound and fury
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed you are right. The banks will follow the accepted rule of law. Even if the catalan independence movement had majority support for the actions it was taking it would be difficult to create a financial structure that funds any substantial activity. The only hope for the Catalan independents is that Madrid goes around using too much force.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone here hasn't worked it out yet, the future is very likely to be a re-run of the past. Only less fun.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://randompublicjournal.com/2017/10/27/welcome-to-the-catalan-republic-part-two/
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So proud of the Catalonians!

Well done! Wink
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 1452

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian Allison: Catalonia looks to Estonia's e-residency and considers cryptocurrency option

Quote:
An article in Spain's main daily newspaper El Pais reports that digital transformation experts working for the Government of Catalonia, the Generalitat de Catalunya, have visited Estonia several times to gather tips on how to implement an e-residency programme.

Dani Marco, director of SmartCatalonia, who appears to be heading up the initiative, pointed out that the Estonians "started from scratch, with all the possibilities they were offered to build a model of economic development."


This is something to keep an eye on. If the Catalans want genuine independence this is a blueprint that could challenge the fundamentals of the EU itself. So I suspect that Rajoy will be given the green light by the EU to try and suppress this
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