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Planned Somerset nuclear plant on hold ? or not ?
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/feb/04/centrica-withdraw-new-nuclear-projects

Another company withdraws from new nuclear.

The only splace I can see the money coming from now is China.
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alex



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

China may well be the case as announced earlier today. CENTRICA PULLS OUT
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is awful. I'd actually prefer a nuke built by the French than one built by the Chinese. Of course, best of all would be one not built at all...
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adam2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
This is awful. I'd actually prefer a nuke built by the French than one built by the Chinese. Of course, best of all would be one not built at all...


I doubt that it will be built at all, the start date has been put back to 2020, by which time there may be a change of government.
The new party in charge will probably not formally cancel it, but will probably call for another round of reviews and consultations.

Public opinion is against new nukes at present. That will probably change when the lights go out, but it will be a bit late by then.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 2020 we will have had two changes of government. We're in a game of pass the parcel as neither party has a clue.
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clv101
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Public opinion is against new nukes at present.

Is there recent polling? My hunch is that a majority support new nuclear build.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the past nukes have tended to be sited not in the majority's backyard and the cost, and upon whom the cost falls, has been hidden from the majority.

Furthermore, the majority has an IQ of <101, which is a problem in a number of fields.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Public opinion is against new nukes at present.

Is there recent polling? My hunch is that a majority support new nuclear build.


It is possible that the majority support new nukes in some abstract way, but certainly not near them !

Public opinion in and around Minehead seems to have shifted against the proposed new nuclear plant at Hinkly.
Initialy there was considerable support for the idea due to the extra employment that was expected.
Opinion has now shifted after it was implied that almost all the workers would be shipped in from Eastern Europe, there being no question of employing locals.
Apart from the lack of oportunities for local workers, there was considerable anger at the proposal to build a village, on a greenfield site, to house all the workers.
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alex



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Financial Times.

By Guy Chazan in Hinkley Point

Quote:
The Somerset coast can be a bleak place, especially on a rainy day in March, but something momentous is stirring here.

The flat, grassy plain stretching south towards the Quantock Hills could soon be home to Britain’s first new nuclear power plant in a generation. Negotiations to build Hinkley Point C – a £14bn plant that is one of the UK’s most ambitious and contentious infrastructure projects – have now gone critical.

Planning permission is expected to be granted next week for EDF Energy’s gargantuan project. However, protracted political wrangling over the “strike price” for the energy it will produce has led its developer to threaten to power down, laying off 150 jobs and freezing recruitment.

Adjoining its existing power station, Hinkley Point B, the scale of the project has prompted EDF to compare it to London’s 2012 Olympic Games. At the peak of construction, 5,600 people will be employed at the 175-hectare site. When completed, the plant will provide seven per cent of the UK’s electricity and power around 5 million homes.

“Nothing on this scale has ever been done before,” says Nigel Cann, Hinkley’s head of construction, looking out over a vast, muddy building site dotted with bulldozers. “Sometimes you have to pinch yourself.”

Nuclear reactors are so expensive, they are normally built by governments. Hinkley will be constructed by a publicly listed company – a first for the UK. The coalition has refused to subsidise nuclear power, but some state support is on offer. To help bring down capital costs, the government will guarantee nuclear developers a long-term price for the electricity they generate.

EDF and the government are in talks on the so-called “strike price” for Hinkley’s power. The Treasury’s opening offer of £80 per megawatt hour was some way below the £100 figure EDF is believed to be holding out for. Recently, the smoke signals have not been encouraging.

In a message to staff last week, EDF Energy’s chief executive Vincent de Rivaz said negotiations were “very challenging”. People close to the talks say they are moving in the right direction and “real progress” has been made, but few expect them to conclude by EDF’s deadline of the end of this month.

For Mr Cann, it is a frustrating time. He has relocated bat roosts and badger sets and endured trespasses and blockades by eco-warriors. That the whole enterprise could now fall at the last hurdle is puzzling to this veteran of an earlier, more statist era in Britain’s nuclear history where long-term energy security was key and commercial considerations were secondary.

“I’m a child of the Central Electricity Generating Board, and we had a 40-year plan for the UK,” he says. “We’re nowhere near that now.”

Frustrated with the delays, EDF has taken the risky step of downing tools, seemingly in the hope this will hasten negotiations. It has cut headcount at the project by about 20 per cent, or 150 people, and stopped recruiting the extra apprentices needed for the plant.

“We cannot afford to burn money every day, every week, every month without a clear understanding of where it’s leading us,” said one senior EDF executive. The company had already spent £800m without a single brick being laid, he added.

Any decision by EDF Energy to walk away from the project completely would have huge repercussions for Britain’s energy system. By 2025, more than 40 per cent of the UK’s old power stations will have closed, and the government is relying on nuclear to fill the gap. Ministers want some 16 gigawatts of new nuclear capacity added to the country’s electricity system by 2025.

With the EDF talks going so slowly, some think that goal is unrealistic. The Commons Energy and Climate Change Committee complained earlier this month that the government lacked a contingency plan in case new nuclear failed to happen. “Crossing one’s fingers is not an adequate or responsible approach when the UK’s legally binding climate change commitments and energy security are at stake,” it said.
Despite the complications, Hinkley Point C has at least been hitting all its milestones. Last November, EDF won a nuclear site licence – the first to be awarded for a new power station site in the UK for 25 years.

A month later, its EPR reactor design was passed by regulators for use in Britain, and the decision on consent to construct is expected by next week.
In anticipation of that, the site is gradually being prepared for D-day.

Diggers are testing and cleaning the soil of asbestos. An electricity substation is taking shape to power batching plants, tunnel-boring machines and the conveyor from a nearby jetty, which will bring in aggregates and sand for the 3 million tonnes of concrete required to build the plant. But on these windswept plains, the background noise of the negotiations grows ever louder.

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Blue Peter



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
“Nothing on this scale has ever been done before,” says Nigel Cann


That's not really a very good sign, considering the way that the world is going,


Peter.
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ujoni08



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. The scale is huge. The potential for massive cost over-runs is high, not to mention all the other considerations...
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JohnB



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ujoni08 wrote:
Agreed. The scale is huge. The potential for massive cost over-runs is high, not to mention all the other considerations...

You mean like this one?
http://www.robedwards.com/2013/03/accident-at-hinkley-point-nuclear-plant-could-contaminate-austria-warns-government-agency.html
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clv101
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Peter wrote:
Quote:
“Nothing on this scale has ever been done before,” says Nigel Cann


That's not really a very good sign, considering the way that the world is going,


Peter.


It's also rubbish. From the mid-seventies to the mid-eighties we commissioned no less than seven nuclear power stations, totalling 8GW capacity. The French were even more prolific.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but this new proposed one will be more complicated. (It has to comply with the Universal Law of Complexification.)

So it won't get built.
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alex



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Yes but this new proposed one will be more complicated. (It has to comply with the Universal Law of Complexification.)

So it won't get built.


As well as untried Technology.

If as we are lead to believe the lights will go out in a short while, why then do they chose to embark upon something so new and radical as this?

Olkiluoto in Finland 4 years behind schedule, and over budget. Flamanville in France (EdF's home territory) is heading the same way.

Therefore why embark on such a project when one could have been built as an interim measure using proven methodology. Mind you, can't say we want or need that version either.
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