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Energy smart meters are a threat to privacy, says watchdog
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5666
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnB wrote:
I think it's like ID cards, a centralised medical records database, and other big systems that store personal data. In an ideal world, where the genuine wellbeing of every citizen is the only objective, it could bring real benefits. But we don't live in that sort of world, and the risks of misuse are too high.
Yep.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With smart metering you could disconnect all the "windmill" NIMBYs first when there's a power shortage.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be excellent but (therefore?) extremely unlikely.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
With smart metering you could disconnect all the "windmill" NIMBYs first when there's a power shortage.


Starting with Donald Trump Evil or Very Mad
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thinking there, Tarrel.
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Mr. Fox



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 491
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the news again...

Public may end up paying for obsolete smart meters that save little, MPs warn

Quote:
The government's £11bn roll-out of smart gas and electricity meters will cost every home about £215 over the next 15 years – yet households will save at most just 3% a year on the average energy bill by 2030, MPs have warned.

Householders would save an average of just 2% on the typical annual bill of £1,328 until 2020, rising to £43 a year or 3% by 2030, the influential public accounts select committee said.

It said the Department of Energy & Climate Change had estimated the cost of the programme to install smart meters at £10.6bn, with households contributing through their energy bills.

The average impact on bills of the suppliers' net costs was expected to peak at £11 a year in 2017. The £215 represents the capital cost of installing the equipment, which will be borne by consumers between 2015 and 2030.


Technical spec (SMETS2) here.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A simple, cost effective way to limit domestic consumption is to ration. Every household gets a personal energy allowance that costs X based on the number, ages, medical needs etc of that household. After that the price rises per unit of energy used and keeps rising the more a household uses over and above the basic allowance. That way, anyone who wants and can afford to use loads of energy can so so, but will progressively pay through the nose for the privilege. The extra money they pay for their profligate consumption can be used to subsidise the cost of the basic allowance. It's simple, it's progressive and so it is fair.

Oh no, wait, I forget, we don't do "progressive" or "fair" any more in this country. Instead, we let the "market decide".
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Mr. Fox



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only there were a forum somewhere where such ideas could be discussed... Wink
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecook172001 wrote:
A simple, cost effective way to limit domestic consumption is to ration. Every household gets a personal energy allowance that costs X based on the number, ages, medical needs etc of that household. After that the price rises per unit of energy used and keeps rising the more a household uses over and above the basic allowance. That way, anyone who wants and can afford to use loads of energy can so so, but will progressively pay through the nose for the privilege. The extra money they pay for their profligate consumption can be used to subsidise the cost of the basic allowance. It's simple, it's progressive and so it is fair.

Oh no, wait, I forget, we don't do "progressive" or "fair" any more in this country. Instead, we let the "market decide".
My electric co-op (by state rule) charges a lifeline rate of .09/kwh for the first 200 kwhs then .22/kwh after that A person that is thrifty with the lights can get out of it for $30 per month. No smart meters needed.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
My electric co-op (by state rule) charges a lifeline rate of .09/kwh for the first 200 kwhs then .22/kwh after that A person that is thrifty with the lights can get out of it for $30 per month. No smart meters needed.
Exactly. Though, as I'm sure you might guess, I would go the whole hog and make it fully progressive. That is to say, instead of a single, blunt charge differential at 200kwh, I would have several such differentials.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecook172001 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
My electric co-op (by state rule) charges a lifeline rate of .09/kwh for the first 200 kwhs then .22/kwh after that A person that is thrifty with the lights can get out of it for $30 per month. No smart meters needed.
Exactly. Though, as I'm sure you might guess, I would go the whole hog and make it fully progressive. That is to say, instead of a single, blunt charge differential at 200kwh, I would have several such differentials.

Ever hear of the KISS advice? Stands for "keep it simple stupid." 200 kwhs is enough to run the fridge and the furnace and a few lights when needed and not much else. Even a chest freezer would put you over a bit. If your over the line, your over. Why should how much over matter?
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
My electric co-op (by state rule) charges a lifeline rate of .09/kwh for the first 200 kwhs then .22/kwh after that A person that is thrifty with the lights can get out of it for $30 per month. No smart meters needed.
Exactly. Though, as I'm sure you might guess, I would go the whole hog and make it fully progressive. That is to say, instead of a single, blunt charge differential at 200kwh, I would have several such differentials.

Ever hear of the KISS advice? Stands for "keep it simple stupid." 200 kwhs is enough to run the fridge and the furnace and a few lights when needed and not much else. Even a chest freezer would put you over a bit. If your over the line, your over. Why should how much over matter?
Because a progressive scale allows for even lower, [subsidised] prices at the bottom end by applying higher, [over the odds] prices at the top end. Because energy, the basis of everything else, should be part of the commons. Because I do not believe it is culturally, politically or morally sustainable for a nation to exist where there is no limit to how big the difference between the rich and poor can get.

Because I am a socialist.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4269
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecook172001 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
My electric co-op (by state rule) charges a lifeline rate of .09/kwh for the first 200 kwhs then .22/kwh after that A person that is thrifty with the lights can get out of it for $30 per month. No smart meters needed.
Exactly. Though, as I'm sure you might guess, I would go the whole hog and make it fully progressive. That is to say, instead of a single, blunt charge differential at 200kwh, I would have several such differentials.

Ever hear of the KISS advice? Stands for "keep it simple stupid." 200 kwhs is enough to run the fridge and the furnace and a few lights when needed and not much else. Even a chest freezer would put you over a bit. If your over the line, your over. Why should how much over matter?
Because a progressive scale allows for even lower, [subsidised] prices at the bottom end by applying higher, [over the odds] prices at the top end. Because energy, the basis of everything else, should be part of the commons. Because I do not believe it is culturally, politically or morally sustainable for a nation to exist where there is no limit to how big the difference between the rich and poor can get.

Because I am a socialist.
What's that quote? Oh yes "sooner or later you socialist run out of other peoples money." There is a limit to how much you can charge a rich man for his energy. That limit is where he can go provide it for himself by his own means. Of course you would try to tax that to make it fair. Energy a part of the commons ? I don't see how. From Neanderthals gathering wood for the fire on, those who do have and those that don't freeze. There is a limit to how big the difference between rich and poor is. It is brought about by the rich needing to spend their money to derive any pleasure or use from it. The poor should make sure the rich pay dearly for their pleasure.
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Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm not having one (a smart meter). I'd rather go off-grid first.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

200kwh is about what my family of 4 use in a month, all in, cooking, washing, TV, computers etc. Including electric shower at 7kw. We pay higher rates for the first kwh's, about 24p iirc
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