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Assange Watch
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Sweden has nothing to do with this anymore.

Have they withdrawn the EAW?


The Swedish case has been dropped. He is no longer wanted in Sweden.

Quote:

I know he could be arrested simply for going on the run - although that would be silly.


He has been informed that the UK police still want to arrest him for failing to report to a police station or something like that.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:

He has been informed that the UK police still want to arrest him for failing to report to a police station or something like that.

Whatever deal he does with Trump would not impact on that issue.

Furthermore if he is not subject to potential extradition to Sweden his arguments for going into the Embassy originally fall and there would have to be a completely new reason (such as he might be extradited from the UK).

His original arguments were not in my view valid as I always thought the UK was more likely to co-operate with the US than Sweden. Also I didn't think the Obama administration wanted to get him anyway.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:

He has been informed that the UK police still want to arrest him for failing to report to a police station or something like that.

Whatever deal he does with Trump would not impact on that issue.


Of course it would. If the US "pardons" him (for something he has only been accused of behind closed doors) - if the US declares it is no longer interested in detaining him - then all he faces is a very minor charge in the UK. He would be free to walk out of that embassy. The embassy only granted him asylum on the grounds that he was wanted in the US. If the US declares it doesn't want him, then the Ecuadorians would probably kick him out if he doesn't walk.

Quote:

Furthermore if he is not subject to potential extradition to Sweden his arguments for going into the Embassy originally fall and there would have to be a completely new reason (such as he might be extradited from the UK).


That is "completely new". Why are you still being so disingenuous? He always claimed that both the UK and Swedish authorities were planning to serve him up to the US.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
That is "completely new". Why are you still being so disingenuous? He always claimed that both the UK and Swedish authorities were planning to serve him up to the US.

He spent a lot of time whilst not in the Ecuadorian Embassy wandering around the UK fighting the European Arrest Warrant on the basis that he did not want to go to Sweden because they would send him on to the USA.

If at that stage the US had wanted him arrested they could have applied for that.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 5667
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are a liar and bullshitter John Hemming and everyone can see it. I would ask how you are able to persist with this so unashamedly. But, then I remember who you are.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This argument is past its sell-by date. Sweden has dropped the case, Assange is now only wanted, officially, in the UK on a minor charge, while recent events have dispelled all possible doubt that the Americans have indeed been after him via extradition. A deal with Trump to drop the investigation into Assange's involvement with the Chelsea Manning case means he can leave the embassy. The only question is whether or not such a deal ever gets done. Seems entirely possible to me if he has the information Trump needs.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
You are a liar and bullshitter John Hemming and everyone can see it. I would ask how you are able to persist with this so unashamedly. But, then I remember who you are.

It like Donald Trump and Fake News.

What is untrue in what I have said?

I think Wikileaks did a number of useful things and would not wish Assange to be prosecuted for Wikileaks.

However, it should be noted that Obama Pardoned Chelsea Manning - who sent the material to Wikileaks that the big stress is about.

I think Assange is more at risk from Trump than Obama, however, the only law he has clearly broken is one of going on the run in the UK,

However, I personally think we should try to work out what the truth really is. Hence the question as to what I have said that is wrong.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Seems entirely possible to me if he has the information Trump needs.

That may be true, but it causes a major issue as to the conflict of interest between Trump's personal interest and the public interest in the USA.

Personally I would think Obama and the democrats would have been sympathetic with Assange as they would not have been happy with what some troops did in terms of shooting a camera operator in Iraq (inter alia). Trump is a completely different and relatively unpredictable administration which is mainly about the best interests of Trump himself.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Seems entirely possible to me if he has the information Trump needs.

That may be true, but it causes a major issue as to the conflict of interest between Trump's personal interest and the public interest in the USA.


Not the first, and not Assange's problem or the UK's problem.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Seems entirely possible to me if he has the information Trump needs.

That may be true, but it causes a major issue as to the conflict of interest between Trump's personal interest and the public interest in the USA.


Not the first, and not Assange's problem or the UK's problem.

Not Assange's problem. Trump is a problem to pretty well everyone.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Seems entirely possible to me if he has the information Trump needs.

That may be true, but it causes a major issue as to the conflict of interest between Trump's personal interest and the public interest in the USA.


Not the first, and not Assange's problem or the UK's problem.

Not Assange's problem. Trump is a problem to pretty well everyone.


You are implying it is not in the UK's interest if Trump does a deal to let Assange off the hook, after spending the whole of the rest of this thread doing your best to give the impression that neither the UK nor the US was really after him?

Trump is a problem. Assange isn't, unless your tongue likes the taste of establishment arse. Or you don't like the truth.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
You are implying it is not in the UK's interest if Trump does a deal to let Assange off the hook, after spending the whole of the rest of this thread doing your best to give the impression that neither the UK nor the US was really after him?

I don't know how you have worked that out.

My view is that had he gone to Sweden nothing much would have happened in respect of the criminal offences in Sweden and he would have essentially been a free man - although one who may wish to stay out of the USA. That seems to me the best outcome.

Obama's USA was not as far as I can tell after him. Given that it was Chelsea Manning who actually sent the info to him, his act as merely publishing it may have been unpopular in the state, but was probably covered by the US constitution, but it may not have been,

In any event if Obama was willing to pardon Manning I don't think he wanted to see Assange brought to the USA.

The UK does want Assange for going on the run, but to be honest I don't think it is in the public interest to prosecute him and it is worth now looking at simply letting him go if the EAW has been withdrawn.
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
You are implying it is not in the UK's interest if Trump does a deal to let Assange off the hook, after spending the whole of the rest of this thread doing your best to give the impression that neither the UK nor the US was really after him?

I don't know how you have worked that out.

My view is that had he gone to Sweden nothing much would have happened in respect of the criminal offences in Sweden and he would have essentially been a free man - although one who may wish to stay out of the USA. That seems to me the best outcome.


Well, Assange, the Ecuadorians and a large number of other people think you are totally wrong. I have no idea whether you are being dishonest or genuinely cannot see the obvious truth that the US was doing everything in its power to get hold of him and that Sweden and the UK were assisting them.

But I really am bored of explaining this every time you try to mislead people, and it is now completely irrelevant because Sweden has dropped the case. It doesn't matter anymore.

Quote:

The UK does want Assange for going on the run, but to be honest I don't think it is in the public interest to prosecute him and it is worth now looking at simply letting him go if the EAW has been withdrawn.


He is going nowhere until the US declares it is no longer interested in detaining him.
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johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:

But I really am bored of explaining this every time you try to mislead people, and it is now completely irrelevant because Sweden has dropped the case. It doesn't matter anymore.


What I read recently about the case was that Sweden has stopped the investigation, but could start it again.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/may/19/swedish-prosecutors-drop-julian-assange-investigation

Quote:
“If he, at a later date, makes himself available, I will be able to decide to resume the investigation immediately.”


I live in a world in which there is a defined reality and I try to understand what it is. This gives no justification for your claims about me.

I am interested in any rational arguments with evidence to indicate that I am wrong as I can use that to improve my understanding of reality. I do not expect such information from yourself or "Little John".
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8640
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no chance of it starting again unless Assange finds himself in a position where he is able to clear his name regarding the allegations without exposing himself to risk of prosecution by the US for wikileaks-related stuff.

It is no longer relevant to his incarceration in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

However, the current situation does prove one thing beyond all possible doubt: Assange has never been "hiding from Swedish justice." If the real reason he fled to that embassy was fear of prosecution for rape in Sweden, what would be the point in him staying there after the rape case has been dropped? The only explanation for his continued presence in that embassy is fear of extradition to the US, and the recent visit of senior US politician to discuss the exchange of information regarding the DNC leak for a US "pardon" 100% confirms that his fears are justified. In other words, you have been consistently wrong about this for the last five years, and you're still wrong now. You were one of the people claiming Assange was trying to avoid a rape trial and that his fear that the US wanted him was either a lie or a delusion.
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