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Should transport infrastructure be more weather resistant ?
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think weather infrastructure should be more transport-resistant...

The pothole thing's interesting. I don't know if you know this vt but the UK has recently (again) upped the limit for truck weight on our roads. When I were a lass this was 34 Tonnes. It's now 48 or something, having gone up in chunks of 2 tonnes every few years when nobody's been looking. Needless to say, neither our road surfaces nor the often-mediaeval layout of our cities has adapted to keep up.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
neither our road surfaces nor the often-mediaeval layout of our cities has adapted to keep up.

Thime the middle ages caught up.

Round here the roads were built narrower, single carriageway (when we had proper carriages). The roads had a couple of thousand years worth of foundations, settlement and more building. Then a few decades ago the roads were widened, which was convenient in the face of on-coming traffic but it meant that the new yard or so on either side of the road had very little strength. Now with the heavy lorries the roads develop longitudinal cracks a yard from the edge with the outer parts of the road heading down and outwards towards the nearest ditch or dyke.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
I think weather infrastructure should be more transport-resistant...

The pothole thing's interesting. I don't know if you know this vt but the UK has recently (again) upped the limit for truck weight on our roads. When I were a lass this was 34 Tonnes. It's now 48 or something, having gone up in chunks of 2 tonnes every few years when nobody's been looking. Needless to say, neither our road surfaces nor the often-mediaeval layout of our cities has adapted to keep up.

It is much the same here. Roads designed and built by horse drawn wagon got a leveling course of a few inches of gravel then chip sealed with cutback asphalt or even coal tar back in the twenties then they got widened on the cheap in the post war late forties and fifties then suffered benign neglect while the inter state highways were being built. Now the weight limits are soaring to appease the trucking lobbyist and fuel taxes are being diverted to wet lands, bike paths and corn ethanol. On the plus side I will never run out of work that really, really!! needs doing.
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the_lyniezian



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
I think weather infrastructure should be more transport-resistant...

The pothole thing's interesting. I don't know if you know this vt but the UK has recently (again) upped the limit for truck weight on our roads. When I were a lass this was 34 Tonnes. It's now 48 or something, having gone up in chunks of 2 tonnes every few years when nobody's been looking. Needless to say, neither our road surfaces nor the often-mediaeval layout of our cities has adapted to keep up.


The "often mediaeval layout of our cities" has enough trouble keeping up with the humble motor car, let alone 48-ton trucks!

(Another thing those Yanks have probably not directly experienced).
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
the UK has recently (again) upped the limit for truck weight on our roads. When I were a lass this was 34 Tonnes. It's now 48 or something, having gone up in chunks of 2 tonnes every few years when nobody's been looking.


Feckin' jaysus. Mad. We've nearly got the same over here - 46 tonnes - where the roads are far worse to start with.

Add in the 'competition', where three or more separate parcels vans travel the same roads the postperson does, or refuse trucks - same again, where there used to be one. Then there's farm vehicles, which can be simply huge.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weight limit is set by the EU for the whole EU.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's more to weight than one might suspect: width of tyres, axle spacing, suspension whether one is travelling to of from a railhead and much more...

http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/axles.html

44 tonnes is the maximum and that comes with a whole lot of extra condition.

But it does make you wonder why there is so much stuff in the wrong place.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool They change the rules about the trucks weight and conformation but they can't do anything to make the bridges any stronger. Job security for me as long as there is fuel to keep the trucks pounding the roads and bridge decks to rubble.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recent and ongoing severe weather certainly shows the need to make transport infrastructure more weather resistant.

Allmost no trains are running in the far Southwest at present due to extreme weather.
Part of the sea wall and station at Dawlish has been washed into the sea, the damage looks very extensive.

This stretch of line is allways somwhat vulnerable, and building of an inland alternative route is periodicly disscussed.

Numerous other bits of the rail network are damaged.
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clv101
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Part of the sea wall and station at Dawlish has been washed into the sea, the damage looks very extensive.

Talk this afternoon is of a six-week fix. I'll be impressed if it's done that soon - it seems like a whole new section of sea wall needs to be designed and built, with ongoing bad weather before they can even think about relaying the track...

In the long term, this line is untenable. We can expect another couple feet of sea level rise in the coming decades.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can make out the "six weeks" originated in a BBC TV interview of a Network Rail bloke who in an interviewed on site was asked how long the job would take, looked at the mess, sucked in through his teeth and said "About six weeks, luv." or something to that effect.

Those who think extreme weather events may become more frequent in the lifetime of a railway might like to consider alternative routes. We can hardly blame Mr Brunel for failing to take global warming into account, but now...

I guess that the frequency of 10 metre waves may be more critical than the expected sea level rise in the next few decades.

Dawlish Station was opened in 1846 so it is 168 years old. Any guesses as to where sea level and storm intensity will be in another 167 years?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to reopen the Teign Valley Line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teign_Valley_Line
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cubes



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems a bit pointless trying to fix the line until the spring anyway, or at least until the weather improves.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
It seems a bit pointless trying to fix the line until the spring anyway, or at least until the weather improves.
There must be quite a bit of preliminary engineering work and marshaling of materials that can be done now for a spring start. Of course what you consider winter conditions wouldn't phase a contractor here one bit unless the work was to be conducted in the sea itself.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

faze

Cool
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