PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Optimum size for new home
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Preparations
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7859

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry hear that Adam. Glad it wasn't more serious and repairs are manageable.

I've read a bit about the dangers of malfunctioning Li batteries. These days there are literally 10s of million phones, tablets and laptops, left on charge overnight, under beds, on sofas etc where a couple of decades ago there were ~none. Have we seen a dramatic increase in house fires?

Maybe less smoking (number one cause), less cooking, especially deep fat frying (anyone still have a chip pan?) and better regulations regarding flammable furniture etc have more than offset the new risk posed by Li batteries?

In fact, fire deaths haven been on a long term downward trend, 775 in 1981-82 when comparable figures started being collected to under 300 today (in England).
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6218
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have a deep fat frying pan.

I am northern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A local fire officer whom I know states that the number of domestic fires has remained roughly the same for many years, but the number of lives lost has been much reduced by the general use of smoke alarms.

A growing cause of fire in North Somerset is incorrectly installed or carelessly used wood stoves.
Drying laundry too close to the stove, chimney fires, and the ignition of firewood placed too close to the stove are common causes of fire.

The general use of polyester duvets and pillows instead of wool blankets and feather pillows was also noted as an increased risk.
Defective, poor quality, or misused extension leads are an increasing cause of fire.
Outdoor fires started by barbecues are a growing problem, these sometimes spread to houses or other buildings.

Fires due to smoking materials and from cooking have indeed declined. Fewer people cook at home, especially after drinking, due to the number of fast food outlets available.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4857
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope the dog gets a attah-boy and some first class steak kibble. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
I hope the dog gets a attah-boy and some first class steak kibble. Very Happy


He was kept at the vets for observation and treatment but is now back home, and receiving various treats including venison.

Replacement floor joists have been delivered to replace the ones damaged by fire, and new floor boards.
Considerable stocks of clothing and bedding though not damaged by fire smell of smoke, 50 ? loads of laundry to be done !

Most of the contents of the living area will need replacing, contents of other rooms mainly OK, IF the smell of smoke can be removed.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repairs now completed.
4 floor joists replaced, and most of the flooring in one upper room.
Ceiling replaced in the area where the fire started.
Total cost including replacing damaged contents estimated at about £10,000, insured.
There is still a slight smell of smoke.

I recently met two of the firefighters who attended, they described this fire as one of the more challenging that they have been to.
Although a relatively minor fire, it was very challenging due to the restricted access and limited water supply.
In such circumstances, the leading fireman on the first appliance would normally order a water tanker, but in this case access was too restricted.

Of particular note was that a total loss was almost certainly avoided by the several thousand litres of water stored in IBCs on site.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10581
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Planning normally requires at least a 3.6m (12 ft) wide access for the fire brigade, nothing about water supply though. We've got a one inch water supply from our meter and anything else is at least 400 metres away and the other side of a trunk road so that would cause problems.

We do have several thousand litres in IBCs but with the current weather that could reduce quickly. We don't, however, have any cats of dogs to go to sleep on charging mobile phones or laptops.
_________________
As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The access to the property is very limited, and I am a bit surprised that it was allowed. I suspect that it would not be allowed in the case of a new development, but was "grandfathered" in the case of constructing a new dwelling on a site used for a previous home.

Mains water is available, but only in very limited volumes of little use for serious fire fighting. It goes off entirely when the neighbours cows are thirsty !

The fire engine could get no closer than about 100 meters, the firefighters had to make a long hose run into the house to use the water carried on board, and carried a portable pump to use the water stored on site.

Afterwards, the firefighters said it felt like a training exercise in which extra difficulties are introduced in order to test the skills and initiative of firemen.

Extra IBCs are to be obtained just in case of another fire.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A slight smoke smell remains, but otherwise all is now good.
Structural damage was limited to a few floor joists, replacing these was very awkward.
All reserve stocks of bedding and clothing have been laundered.

I assisted with replacing fire damaged wiring.

An extra 9 IBCs have been purchased and filled with water as a fire fighting reserve. At my suggestion, these are linked together in groups of three.
Firefighters may therefore pump from the middle one of each group of three, and obtain 3,000 litres of water at a time without transferring the pump suction from one container to another.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 7859

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
An extra 9 IBCs have been purchased...

What's the thinking behind a large number of IBCs instead of one, two or three much larger single containers?

We're currently working out our rainwater harvesting and thinking to get a single 6000 litre container, it's more expensive than six IBCs, but takes up a lot less room and the height provides a better head.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10581
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can generally get IBCs free, at least around Newbury. Most of ours are 1200 litre capacity as well. We stack our IBCs two high so at least half of them have a greater head.
_________________
As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The IBCs were cheap and available quickly, they stand on any reasonably firm and level surface. Larger tanks may need foundations or supports.
Empty IBCs can be handled by one person.

The provision of extra water storage was considered to be very urgent due to the current severe wild fire risk.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adam2
Site Admin


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6817
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Planning normally requires at least a 3.6m (12 ft) wide access for the fire brigade, nothing about water supply though. We've got a one inch water supply from our meter and anything else is at least 400 metres away and the other side of a trunk road so that would cause problems.

We do have several thousand litres in IBCs but with the current weather that could reduce quickly. We don't, however, have any cats or dogs to go to sleep on charging mobile phones or laptops.


The road width has since been measured and was.
Clear and readily available width 2.8m
"emergency width" 3.1m allowing for pushing past tree branches and scrub.

This has now been improved by some significant tree felling and is now 3.7m clear at the narrowest point, and generally 4m.
This is not a public right of way but is a private track that serves a large farm, a smallholding and the house.

Until the fire, no one worried about the steadily reducing width of the road, the small holder used nothing bigger than a land rover or small tractor, and the large farm has alternative access for heavy or large vehicles and uses the track only for moving cattle, and for staff access.

The work was done jointly by the household who suffered the fire, and by the smallholder, who would also be at risk of poor access frustrating fire brigade attendance.
The owner of the large farm assisted by loaning vehicles and by providing fuel for same.

All the good timber was saved for building, and many tones of fire wood resulted.
_________________
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4857
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the legal width of a truck (fire or other) in the UK? in the US it is eight feet not counting the mirrors . A long truck on a very sharp curve might need some more but nothing should need twelve feet unless it is a construction crane or prefabbed housing unit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 10581
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The minimum entrance width in the UK for a planning application for a house is 3.6m and in some cases a turning head will be required as well so that a fire engine can easily get in and refuse wagons can get in and out in a forward direction.

They are both standard width vehicles of about 2.4m but they want the width initially so that if the width narrows over time the vehicles can still get in and out, I suppose.
_________________
As Steve Keen puts it: “Capital without energy is a statue; labour without energy is a corpse.” Economics ignores this which is why economics is broken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Preparations All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Page 9 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group