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Plans for world's first tidal power plant
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My response to the Wildlife Trusts' Swansea Tidal Lagoon statement

http://lwt-lag.blogspot.co.uk/

The statement contains a lot of good sense and there are difficult balances to be struck, but I think it lacks acknowledgement of the climate change emergency we and the wildlife are facing. Unless we cease to burn fossil carbon fuels in quick order there will be no marine mammals to conserve in the acid, anoxic ocean and 'designated habitat features' will become redundant in a warmer world. Moving to a zero-carbon world as fast as physically, rather than politically, possible has to be the top priority for any organisation concerned with wildlife conservation.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, difficult balances, but I'm very much in favour - even better if something can be done regarding the quarrying in Cornwall. I'm sure the rock could be obtained from somewhere else, but there will be issues with the other locations too. If the alternative involves the vast quantities of rock being transported further, more CO2 will result......

Hopefully any EIA can be completed in good time....
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new tide power idea:
http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2983549/revolutionary_sea_fence_promises_tidal_power_price_crash.html
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon hit by delays:
http://www.edie.net/news/4/Swansea-Bay-Tidal-Lagoon-project-hit-by-Government-delays/?utm_source=weeklynewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=news&utm_campaign=weeklynewsletter

Work on building the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon has been delayed to spring 2017 because the government is taking "longer than expected" to finalise a contract for difference (CfD), Tidal Lagoon Power has said. A spokesperson for the firm said it would be ready to build once the remaining permissions have been secured and financial close with investors is achieved.

However, “the Board of Tidal Lagoon Swansea Bay [the company created to own and operate the lagoon] has concluded that this won’t be possible by year-end, ruling out the start of marine works next spring”, the spokesperson added. “A new timetable has therefore been agreed with tier one contractors: targeting financial close next summer. Our aim is to then start the initial civil works on site in autumn 2016 in order that the marine works can start in spring 2017. As a result, target power on moves to 2021.”

Continues....
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Swansea bay tidal lagoon was mentioned on the evening TV news today.
Those who want to build it are still awaiting a government decision, and it was implied are losing patience.

I fear that this will lead to ANOTHER round of studies and consultations, without actually building anything.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely some senior government minister must have a relative who own a cement factory or some-such so that they can make a profit out of the scheme?
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Review threatens £1bn Swansea Bay tidal lagoon:
http://www.endsreport.com/article/51536/review-threatens-1bn-swansea-bay-tidal-lagoon?DCMP=EMC-ENDSRPTENERGYBULLETIN&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=eNews%20Bulletin&utm_source=20160217&utm_content=www_endsreport_com_articl_6

The government has thrown Swansea Bay tidal lagoon project into doubt by announcing a six-month independent review of the feasibility and practicality of tidal lagoon generation. The £1bn, 320-megawatt tidal scheme forms a central part of the regeneration of Swansea’s waterside and is a national infrastructure priority. It received planning approval in June 2015.

Developer Tidal Lagoon Power intends the project as the first of six across the UK, together capable of delivering up to 8% of the UK’s power demand. The decision, announced on 10 February, is widely seen by the renewable sector as a diversionary tactic by the government, with little more likely to be achieved on cost reduction until there is actual project experience.

But there have been concerns over costs, with a contract for difference expected to have needed a strike price of £150 per megawatt hour compared to £92/MWh at the proposed Hinkley C nuclear power station. DECC and Tidal Lagoon Power have been locked in CfD negotiations for the past year. Prime minister David Cameron recently hinted at a rethink after conceding his initial enthusiasm had waned after seeing the cost estimates. But the developers have also pointed out it that would operate subsidy-free for most of its projected 120-year life.

The independent review will start in the spring and is unlikely to conclude before the autumn. It “will take place in consultation with the relevant government departments – in particular DECC and HMT [HM Treasury] for financial aspects”. It will look at cost-effectiveness and its possible future role in the UK’s electricity mix. The scale of the opportunity in the UK and internationally, including supply chain opportunities, and different models for financing projects will be assessed. The review will also assess different sizes of projects as the first of a kind, and whether tidal lagoon projects could be delivered through a competitive framework.

DECC added: “We expect that Tidal Lagoon Power, the proposed developers of Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon, and other industry stakeholders will take part in the review while discussions about Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon continue.” Despite the Swansea Bay scheme’s importance to the renewables sector, others have been more cautious. There have been persistent concerns over impacts in Cornwall from quarrying for rock armour and over effects on fish stocks and wildlife in the bay.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.environmentalistonline.com/article/arguments-reignite-around-swansea-bay-tidal-lagoon-project?utm_source=NONHUB_environmentalist_IEMA&utm_medium=email&utm_content=http%3a%2f%2fwww.environmentalistonline.com%2farticle%2farguments-reignite-around-swansea-bay-tidal-lagoon-project&utm_campaign=the+environmentalist+newsletter+4+August+2016


The government’s review of the feasibility of tidal lagoon projects has been told the technology can provide a huge boost to the UK’s struggling economy. But, equally, that it is so expensive, it is too much of a risk.

Several trade bodies, including the Electrical Contractors Association, are urging the government to support a tidal lagoon project in Swansea Bay to give the UK’s post-Brexit economy a much-needed boost. However, the Renewable Energy Association (REA) has pointed out that tidal lagoons are expensive compared to other renewables technology. The comments were made in responses to the government’s review of the feasibility of tidal lagoons. This was launched in February despite the government being in negotiations with Tidal Lagoon Power about a guaranteed electricity price for its planned scheme in Swansea Bay.

The firm has planning permission for a £1bn 320MW peak capacity project in the bay, but Natural Resources Wales has yet to award a licence and there have been growing concerns over the cost. Tidal Lagoon Power reportedly wants a guaranteed electricity price of £160 per megawatt-hour, far above the £92.50/MWh being given to the proposed new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point. In February, Ecotricity said it could build tidal lagoons at the same price as nuclear. Nonetheless, the response from the Electrical Contractors Association (ECA) stated:‘Given the current economic climate, we suggest it is vital that the government and industry work together to ensure that sufficient investment flows into Wales. By bringing large-scale, no carbon energy projects such as tidal lagoons to Wales, the region can attract other inward investment, create jobs and showcase the innovation and skillset Wales and the UK has to offer.’ There would be many opportunities for ECA’s members with any project, it added. This includes providing transformers, switchboards, cables and undertaking the electrical installation work.

RenewableUK appeared to have taken a similar line in its response. It would not provide a copy to the environmentalist, deputy chief executive Maf Smith said in a statement: ‘Britain has a unique opportunity to take the world lead in this technology. We’re confident that this review will show the huge potential that tidal lagoons have to the UK, boosting the economy and providing clean energy for generations to come. A decision on the Swansea Bay project needs to be forthcoming [as] further delays could jeopardise these opportunities.’ However, the Renewable Energy Association (REA) takes a different line. It warned that, in comparison to other renewables, there is little scope for cost reduction when building tidal lagoons, since it is a mature technology. This calls into question their potential to play a cost-effective role as part of the UK energy mix, it said. The coalition government studied the potential for lagoons before as part of its 2010 study into a Severn Barrage and concluded they would be less economic than the large Barrage options, which themselves were not found to be economically viable, the REA added.

Similar points are made by angling body Fish Legal in its response, which claimed that Tidal Lagoon Power’s initial modelling of the scheme’s impact on migratory fish was inadequate. It said the project was awarded planning permission on the assumption that the affects on fish would be insignificant, but revised modelling has since shown it could potentially cause 5% mortality rate for fish passing through the site. A spokesperson for Tidal Lagoon Power said the company had submitted an array of documentation to the review, including on how it would compensate for any environmental impacts, and new evidence on the flooding benefits lagoons can provide. The review, which is being led by former energy minister Charles Hendry, is due to report in the autumn.
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
The Swansea bay tidal lagoon was mentioned on the evening TV news today.
Those who want to build it are still awaiting a government decision, and it was implied are losing patience.

I fear that this will lead to ANOTHER round of studies and consultations, without actually building anything.


And indeed, ANOTHER round of studies and consultations rather than actually building anything is exactly what is happening.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, the BOE has printed another £60 billion to pump into the banks to get them lending more money on houses to cause an increased bubble in the housing market. Economists are ****ing MAD!!
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trouble is Mark Carnie is a 2-bit operator from Canada which by comparison to the UK is a 2-bit economy. He is out of his depth.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monetary Policy - cutting interest rates, QE etc. are going to have little impact....
Instead, the Government should be putting its resources behind projects like this....
New low carbon technologies, job creating, future proofing......
OK there will be some negative impacts, there are with all big projects, but they can be partially mitigated
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 590
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Meanwhile, the BOE has printed another £60 billion to pump into the banks to get them lending more money on houses to cause an increased bubble in the housing market. Economists are ****ing MAD!!


They are bricking it that a drop in London real estate prices, and the fizzling of buy to let [tax benefits already being reduced] will kill the banks. Since banks are now mainly investment banks, with short term borrowing costs - vs - long term loans. I say day zero is getting close. Just waiting for Pol pot to show up.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
I say day zero is getting close. Just waiting for Pol pot to show up.


I like the image of all the bankers working in the fields...... Smile
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 8633
Location: south east England

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an aside...many will already know this. Tidal power is nothing new. One of the oddest places on the south coast is a place called Tide Mills, just east of Newhaven in Sussex. It is the site of an abandoned village, and a very large tidal mill - basically a water mill driven by an artificial tidal lagoon. The remains of both the buildings and the mill itself are very interesting in terms of habitat - a mixture of artificial saltmarsh, shingle, old walls that mimic cliffs and also the old channel of the Sussex Ouse (the existing one was opened to accomodate RORO ferries heading for Dieppe). A great place to go foraging, and there's usually loads of birdwatchers there too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_Mills,_East_Sussex
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