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Ukraine Watch...
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Mean Mr Mustard



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 1555
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
The really sad thing about Ukraine (unless something even sadder happens, which I hope it doesn't) is that there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of abandonned farms, but people are unable to take them on and get them up-and-running because of corruption. This place has some of the best farmland in Europe, with soil "so rich you could spread it on bread".


Hi RC - How is the corruption interfering with cultivation? Perhaps a lesson to note for closer to home before too long? Of possible related interest is farming in Poland - look at any overhead view - thousands of tiny strips of land, each a different crop. Collectivisation 'efficiency' never took hold there.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8524

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
The really sad thing about Ukraine (unless something even sadder happens, which I hope it doesn't) is that there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of abandonned farms, but people are unable to take them on and get them up-and-running because of corruption. This place has some of the best farmland in Europe, with soil "so rich you could spread it on bread".


Indeed. There's massive food production potential that goes untapped (and also truly massive wastage throughout the food chain). 'Technically' food doesn't have to be a problem in the 21st century. Politics and economics all but guarantees it will be though. Sad.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that seems to stand out in Ukraine is the fact that a awful lot of the people, or at least of those that get near the media, are just not very nice. The idea of all getting on with each other and getting an honest day's wage for an honest day's toil doesn't seem to have occurred to them.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see a great deal wrong with this piece by Rodric Braithwaite in the Independent yesterday:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ukraine-crisis-no-wonder-vladimir-putin-says-crimea-is-russian-9162734.html
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raspberry-blower



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More excellent analysis from Orlov: Reichstag Fire in Kiev
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Snail



Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US bad, Russia good. Rolling Eyes

Edit

Here's a link mentioned in the comment section giving another perspective:http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/mar/01/ukraine-haze-propaganda/

What to believe?
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice piece from Dmitry Smile
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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Location: York

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mean Mr Mustard wrote:
RenewableCandy wrote:
The really sad thing about Ukraine (unless something even sadder happens, which I hope it doesn't) is that there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of abandonned farms, but people are unable to take them on and get them up-and-running because of corruption. This place has some of the best farmland in Europe, with soil "so rich you could spread it on bread".


Hi RC - How is the corruption interfering with cultivation?
Well I could easily imagine a scene where you innocently start growing some grain and then somebody comes along and says, you need to pay extra Land Tax (or licence fee, etc etc make up your own) for that, and blithely sets fire to it and/or cuts your water supply (or destroys some other vital piece of k_er, infrastructure. Setting up in a farm, everyone tends to forget, puts one in a very vulnerable position physically. Until-or-unless there are millions of you, like in France (or Poland?).
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odaeio



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point R.C. - darn, never considered factoring deliberate destruction of my food supply into the "self-sufficiency" plans......... Sad
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rouble and the Russian stock market are being hammered. I guess this this co-ordinated selling by Western governments in retaliation for Ukraine.

Oil and gold up, if Russia pulls the plug on oil and gas to Europe, we will catch cold very quickly indeed.

Does anyone have link to real time NG spot price?
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First reports of Russian troops in East Ukraine mainland.

Will they stop half way or simply walk into Kiev and crush the rebellion?

So far they have not fired a shot. The Ukrainian military are showing no signs of supporting the new regime. My guess is that the officer class was chosen to be pro-Russian in the days before the Ukraine looked West.

Ukraine could be Russian by the end of the week.
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a region that has never had stable borders for long, is lived in by folk with different ancestries and much intermarriage and speaking two major languages and a few others, a history in the living memory of some of occupation by opposing powers, repression, forced migration, starvation and the rest, intense nationalism on the part of some, though they dispute which 'nation' they support, demarcation in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union, government by kleptocracy, oligarchy, organised crime and corruption, gangs of organised criminals fighting turf wars and a woman with pretty plaits. Now let's add the issue of peak oil and gas whereby global rates of supply outstrip demand so somebody has to go with less than they want and global warming that could have caused the drought and fires of a couple of summers ago. Those two issues can only get more problematic in future and will need adapting to.
It seems to me that there are just too many silly people on all the many sides so we should not take sides. The best we can do is offer a nice cup of tea and a biscuit to anyone willing to sit down and have a chat rather than waving an AK47 about.
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odaeio



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The best we can do is offer a nice cup of tea and a biscuit to anyone willing to sit down and have a chat .............


Even that's a problem Biff.........My offer of a nice cuppa Tetly's with Tesco Tuna/Mayo sarnies didn't go down well with Greenpeace and the 38 deg's mob...........

But seriously peops, would turning off the gas taps really hurt Gazprom that much? Couldn't they just supply China or someone else a little cheaper?
Reckon it would hurt Europe far more than Russia......

Why would the oil price be affected? Surely only a tiny part of world oil transits Ukraine....can't see Russia turning off the taps and leaving it in the ground.
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil price always rises when the the world's largest oil producer (Russian Federation, not Saudi Arabia ) sends troops into another country.

If Russia decided to slow down exports by, say 10%, for a few weeks, oil price would rise sharply.
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12667
Location: York

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Europe last 1000 years action replay (with dates)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFD4NRHcywY
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