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Charles Eisenstein on climate change
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RenewableCandy



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 12469
Location: York

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, another way of looking at it is that climate change is only a symptom of what we collectively are doing wrong, the cause being the rigging-up of a type of economy that becomes unstable, and unable to provide adequately for its human participants, as soon as it ceases to grow. There are plenty of other symptoms that are unrelated to CC: depletion of fish, depletion of soil, pollution of the type that causes disease, etc.

The economy thing is a human-made artifact (caused at least in part by the concept of lending-at-interest), and as such is probably more easily correctable than trying to correct CC while still doing it.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's summat that turned up on my facebook:

Quote:
I wonder if some of my other friends were as equally disturbed by the article attacking climate activism by Charles Eisenstein in the latest copy of Resurgence as I was?
This is the letter I have sent to the editor in response:
"Dear Editor,
It would be remiss to allow Charles Eisenstein�s regrettable attack on climate activism to go without remark. The essay contained a number of unscientific urgings and used the unfortunate polemical device of accusing climate-activists of advocating policy positions that they have never held and then attacking them for holding such positions.
Whilst climate activists have rightly pointed out the apocalyptic consequences of a potential 6degC rise in global temperatures, they have never urged that tackling this should be done at the expense of all other social or ethical issues. Rather we have advocated that social justice issues should be tackled in a way that also incorporates tackling the climate crisis. A good example is the provision of zero-carbon social-housing which costs almost nothing to run in financial and CO2 terms.
The global fossil-fuel industry has spent millions on propaganda to create doubt in the public�s mind about action on climate science. How sad therefore that Eisenstein should use such doubts to justify his opposition to the inclusion of climate science when we argue against environmentally destructive fracking, mountain top-removal for coal and the obscenity that is tar-sands removal.
His opposition to counting CO2 emissions is scientifically perplexing. The example he rightly quotes is the questionable emission savings from some biomass and hydro-schemes. But the only reason why we know such schemes are questionable is because scientists actually counted the wider emissions involved.
Charles is correct that humanity needs to be value nature in and of it-self, but humanity also pays attention to what it counts and so the encouragement of individual, community and international pride in reducing our carbon foot-prints is an essential tool in the battle for the planet�s ecosystems� survival. It is essential that we put aside appeals to un-reason and division and agree instead to push forward with a united front between climate, environmental and social justice campaigners. Together we are all stronger and only together can we win.
Yours sincerely
Donnachadh McCarthy FRSA
Author - �The Prostitute State�, 3 Acorns Publications.
2 Coleman Road, Camberwell, London, SE5 7TG
07947 884299

http://www.resurgence.org/magazine/article4147-climate-change-the-bigger-picture.html


I agree with Don.
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Tess



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the problem is that although "humanity pays attention to what it counts", a purely mechanistic/market approach to reducing carbon emissions is not going to solve the problem without a completely unscientific change of heart on the subject of global economic growth. Hearts have to change globally, and minor regulation and tweaking of markets does not interfere in any way with their premise to make money at all costs.

Oddly, it seems to me that this letter is doing what it accuses Eisenstein of doing - knocking down an argument that he isn't actually making. Surely all sides are saying that change takes both scientific monitoring *and* a change of heart to value different things, and each without the other will fail.

(To be honest I'm very cynical about the prospect for any change of heart before nature forces it on us, by which time it will be too late. I read a very depressing mainstream article the other day that said that we're basically the first couple of generations who have essentially no hope that civilisation is improving, nothing culturally to aspire to, except perhaps winning world cups. This is I think one of the reasons I'm religious.)
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Little John



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tess wrote:
....To be honest I'm very cynical about the prospect for any change of heart before nature forces it on us, by which time it will be too late. I read a very depressing mainstream article the other day that said that we're basically the first couple of generations who have essentially no hope that civilisation is improving, nothing culturally to aspire to, except perhaps winning world cups. This is I think one of the reasons I'm religious.

I envy you.

I'm not being facetious. I mean it.
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Tess



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecook172001 wrote:
I envy you. I'm not being facetious. I mean it.


I suspect a great many people in church on Sunday are there not because they have faith but because they would like to have faith.

For myself I decided I wanted it to be real, and decided to act as if it is, and over time that became indistinguishable from actually having faith. I've come to realise it's more of a choice or desire or yearning than a belief.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread! Do PM me if you want to talk about it.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tess wrote:
I read a very depressing mainstream article the other day that said that we're basically the first couple of generations who have essentially no hope that civilisation is improving, nothing culturally to aspire to, except perhaps winning world cups.


No wonder it was depressing. How defeatist can you get. Like saying Windows is 'popular', therefore it must be normal/acceptable. Laughing
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the article Tess quotes might be on to something if we don't have a change of mentality. However, I also happen to think that the said change of mentality is beginning. It's a race against time, but at least it's a fecking race, and not a foregone conclusion.

Where I think Eisenstein is on to something, and what a lot of people don't say enough about, is the inordinate difficulty in leading in any environmental change (but especially CC activism) as an individual because the very act of being, and looking convincingly like, a leader, is itself energy-intensive.

Unless you either become Gandhi, or else you lead by example rather than by position, showing that a non-CC-genic life can be generally satisfying and wonderful. In the words of The Archdruid, to herd cats, first stand where you want them to go, then open a tin of tuna.

And in other news, today I walked to the Plot in the sunshine, picked elderflowers, and started-off this summer's first batch of Elderflower Champagne...
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:



And in other news, today I walked to the Plot in the sunshine, picked elderflowers, and started-off this summer's first batch of Elderflower Champagne...


Sounds a good way to go Candy. Would you care to share your recipe?

Can you use fizzy water plastic bottles?

I have never tried this and have a whole bunch of flowers just bursting on the tree as well.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, 2-litre plastic pop bottles are the business! Though it's hard to rinse the flavour out of whatever they previously had in them. Lemonade's the best.

The recipe, courtesy of Hugh FairlyAnnoying, is:
2 litres hot water
700g ordinary white sugar: dissolve it in.
just under 4 litres cold water
2 Tbsp white wine vinagar
Juice and zest of 4 lemons
15 Elderflower heads (pick on a sunny day). Stir them all up.

I find that it's not necessary to add extra yeast: the flowers seem to have it. Then it's just fermented in a bucket with a towel stretched over the top, stirred daily for a couple of weeks, then strained and bottled.

GENTLY UNSCREW THE LIDS DAILY to let gas out then re-tighten, for a few weeks. I keep ours on the back doorstep, so if they do explode, all it does is water the garden Smile

The resulting fizz is about 4% at a guess. Very refreshing on a summer afternoon or BBQ.
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes he can be a bit annoying, upper class but certainly not a twit. I think on balance his heart is in the right place and he has done a lot more good and and an awful lot less damage than many folk from his social background. I was actually quite impressed with what he has done on fishing and his recent documentary on Scadanavia.

I will double the quantities, (plenty of plassy bottle), see how it goes and let ye know.

Ta
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oobers



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RenewableCandy wrote:
Stir them all up.

I find that it's not necessary to add extra yeast: the flowers seem to have it. Then it's just fermented in a bucket.

I did all this two days ago but no sign of fermentation yet. Very dead looking. Was my water too hot? Have I killed the yeast?
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
his recent documentary on Scadanavia.


Do you have a link to that, PV?
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oobers wrote:
RenewableCandy wrote:
Stir them all up.

I find that it's not necessary to add extra yeast: the flowers seem to have it. Then it's just fermented in a bucket.

I did all this two days ago but no sign of fermentation yet. Very dead looking. Was my water too hot? Have I killed the yeast?
Patience: some of my batches have taken nearly a week to get going. If the water was cool-enough to put your hand in when you put in the flowers, chances are the yeast have survived.
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Potemkin Villager wrote:
his recent documentary on Scadanavia.


Do you have a link to that, PV?



http://www.channel4.com/programmes/scandimania/episode-guide
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
A somewhat related piece here.

It's a harrowing article but includes the following:

Quote:
During my time there I began to develop the idea that perhaps the peoples of upper and middle Laos were an example of humanity living in balance with the environment. The subject of human ecology has dropped out of favor in recent years as the age of cheap oil continued to run its course, but here surely was an example of a population living as a dynamic part of its environment without destroying it. Rivers were kept clean, forests were left mostly intact. Disease, natural disasters and small-scale war kept the population within the region�s carrying capacity. And the people loved the land.


A further piece concerning the sensible inhabitants of Laos.

Quote:
By cutting out the need to buy non-organic fertilisers and pesticides, farmers are also seriously reducing their outgoing costs.

But economic incentives aren’t the only reason that these communities are choosing to become sustainable. Chon says a number of farmers in neighbouring villages have had health issues due to the heavy use of chemical fertilisers and pesticides.

“Chemicals cause health problems. Farmers living in a village close by are using chemicals too much, which is causing problems to their health like liver problems. They have to go to hospital often,” he says. Clearly the need to go sustainable isn’t one to be ignored.

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