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BBC admits it should stop letting Nigel Lawson talk shite
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UndercoverElephant



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: south east England

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: BBC admits it should stop letting Nigel Lawson talk shite Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/07/bbc-we-get-climate-change-coverage-wrong-too-often?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the way you worded your title, UE, and the content of the article even more. Particularly liked this bit -
Quote:
“To achieve impartiality, you do not need to include outright deniers of climate change in BBC coverage, in the same way you would not have someone denying that Manchester United won 2-0 last Saturday. The referee has spoken.”

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adam2
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, many of the fine details about climate change are open to doubt and argument, but there is no room for doubt regarding the broader picture.

The climate has undeniably warmed, not in every single location, nor on every single day.
The broader picture of declining snow cover, retreating glaciers, and reduced polar ice cover is clear beyond doubt.

"the referee has spoken"
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawson. Twits like him either don't understand climate change or have a vested interest in denying it. It's most likely one of those two.
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Lawson. Twits like him either don't understand climate change or have a vested interest in denying it. It's most likely one of those two.


I suspect he has a vested interest in denying it and has never made the slightest effort to try to understand it. It is very much like creationist denialism of evolution - they pay just enough attention to the science to be able to sound vaguely competent when they deny it, at least to the ears of other people who have no interest in actually understanding it.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From UE’s link

Quote:
“climate change has happened before”.


Do any of you deny this statement?
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UndercoverElephant



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
From UE’s link

Quote:
“climate change has happened before”.


Do any of you deny this statement?


I can't imagine why anybody aware of the relevant science would deny this statement. What matters are the causes this particular instance of particularly rapid climate change.

For me, the really sad thing is that we're still arguing about whether climate change is real, or whether humans are causing it, when in fact by now we should be arguing about whether it is possible to implement geo-engineering techniques to try to stop it, or otherwise how we intend to deal with the consequences.
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woodburner



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then we will have to deal with the consequences. The alternative is the climate change euivalent of the pharmaceutical industry, where the only motive is money. They are already at it with spraying huge quantities of aluminium into the atmosphere. Don’t worry about being sad, that won’t make any difference. You could console yourself in that you have had a reasonable innings, and at least in the long term it might be the other species which have had much of the planet stolen from them, get some of it back.
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vtsnowedin



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us take a longer term view shall we. Ice ages have come and gone repeatedly over the last billion years or so, some much colder and worse then the last (some say current ) one. What we know is that the ice sheets that used to extend south to Long island and Berlin in Europe retreated back towards the poles about 11,500 years ago leaving the only land based multi year ice on Greenland and Antarctica and at the tops of the highest mountain ranges. It is certain that the humans living at the time wearing animal skins for clothing and hunting with stone tipped spears and darts had nothing to do with this retreat. The question then becomes is the current observed warming trend something new or just the last remnants of whatever caused the ice retreat 11,500 years ago which is just a blink in geologic time scales? But of course having seven billion humans on the planet burning 150 million barrels a day equivalent of oil and coal for decades probably isn't a good thing for the atmosphere or the environment.
So question two becomes what can or should we do about it? What plan of action would probably return an improvement to the climate that was worth more then the cost (both human and monetary)of the project?
I haven't seen a single good answer to that question.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodburner wrote:
....They are already at it with spraying huge quantities of aluminium into the atmosphere. ....


Reference please?
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UndercoverElephant wrote:
......For me, the really sad thing is that we're still arguing about whether climate change is real, or whether humans are causing it, ....


In that case should we take a leaf out of the BBC's book and "stop letting (Nigel Lawson) Woodburner talk shite" on this site?

Just a thought!
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a blog explaining about current extreme weather and giving plenty of referrals to explanations and rebuttals of contrarian arguments.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
......For me, the really sad thing is that we're still arguing about whether climate change is real, or whether humans are causing it, ....


In that case should we take a leaf out of the BBC's book and "stop letting (Nigel Lawson) Woodburner talk shite" on this site?

Just a thought!


No.

Woodburner sometimes provides interesting, intelligent or challenging points.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't suggesting a complete ban only a ban on Lawsonian twaddle as per the thread headline!

For Woodburner's and any other Climate contrarian's benefit here is a rebuttal of denial of Anthropomorphic Climate Change. Please read this before taking me to task for saying derogatory things about our colleague.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Here's a blog explaining about current extreme weather and giving plenty of referrals to explanations and rebuttals of contrarian arguments.


From the blog:

Quote:
People are already dying as a direct result of what we are doing to the atmosphere, and those death tolls will only become worse if we don’t immediately take action to stop the climate from changing any further. I rarely include calls to action in my posts (other than encouraging people to fact check and think critically), but this topic is far too important for me to end the post without one.

We need to start taking climate change seriously and stop relying on fossil fuels, even if it costs some jobs, increases taxes, etc.

The cost of not taking action will be far, far higher than the cost of taking action, both economically and in terms of human lives. Thousands have already died because of climate change, and thousands more, probably millions more, will die if we don’t change our actions. We have the technology right now to make a huge difference, we just need to invest in it, and that means that you need to take personal responsibility in your daily choices and, perhaps most importantly of all, you need to contact your governmental representatives and tell them that this needs to be a priority, and you need to vote accordingly.


Tis the truth. But it's not going to happen. People act too stupidly.
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