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Budget 2018
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6821
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Budget 2018 Reply with quote

Please add reports, comment and so on about the budget to this thread.

BUDGET REMARKS ELSWHERE ARE LIABLE TO BE DELETED, SO AS TO KEEP THE DISSCUSSION IN ONE PLACE.

This thread will remain a "sticky" only whilst it is topical.
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Last edited by adam2 on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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adam2
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 6821
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad budget IMHO.

Road fuel duty frozen, regrettable in my view.
Beer and spirits duty frozen, good.
Income tax thresholds increased, good.
Business rates relief for many small businesses, good.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 793
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They always make a headline of income tax raises - it's a tory gimmick. What the grovelling media haven't said is that he probably raised the min wage required for national insurance, so part time low earners don't benefit as they get insufficient contribution if they raise the thresholds and you don't work enough. This means the gig economy is rushing to means tested old age pensions, while those who have earned plenty are allowed to earn even more after pension age and keep their profits. As always the baby farmers will get credits for nat ins - everyone else doesn't count.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6230
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Income tax threshold raised to £12,500. It has been reported, enthusiastically, by Hammond that this mean that 40% of the country will now pay no income tax at all.

Just think about that for a moment.....

40% of this country are earning less than £12,500 a year.

Austerity is not over.


Last edited by Little John on Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4862
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
Income tax threshold raised to £12,500. It has been reported, enthusiastically, by Hammond, that this mean that 40% of the country will now pay no income tax at all.

Just think about that for a moment.....

40% of this country are earning less than £12,500 a year.

Austerity is not over.

Is that £12,500 a year gross income or taxable income after standard deductions? Not having paid taxes in the UK I am uninformed.


Last edited by vtsnowedin on Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12,500 gross income so far as I am aware. But, unless one is self employed, there are no other "standard deductions" in the UK apart from national insurance. So, for most uk workers, gross income and taxable income are more or less synonymous.
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clv101
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
Income tax thresholds increased, good.

Not good at all. This rapid escalation of income tax thresholds over recent years has been a huge giveaway to the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Many millions of the poorest people in the country have incomes well below £12k and don't benefit at all from the increase whereas everyone with a decent income, even millionaires, see tax cut.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4862
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link I copied was talking about "disposable income" which was what is left after National health insurance, income and council tax. I take it that "council tax" is equivalent to property taxes here in the USA ( a bit over two percent of the market value of your house and land). What is the rate of the National health insurance? In the US the health industry consumes seventeen percent of the economy but I understand that yours is considerably less but appears to be catching up.
It may well be that many people have not much left after they pay their taxes and health insurance. The problem is what if anything can be done about it.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(a) make rich people poorer

(b) do nothing and wait for the pitchforks
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4862
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little John wrote:
(a) make rich people poorer

(b) do nothing and wait for the pitchforks

I don't know of a case where your option A. has worked for any length of time and your option B. dosen't work all that well against helicopters with night vision capabilities and Gatling guns.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
adam2 wrote:
Income tax thresholds increased, good.

Not good at all. This rapid escalation of income tax thresholds over recent years has been a huge giveaway to the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Many millions of the poorest people in the country have incomes well below £12k and don't benefit at all from the increase whereas everyone with a decent income, even millionaires, see tax cut.


Twas ever thus. Taking people out of the tax 'net' (there are other nets) never benefited the real poor.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 793
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:
Income tax threshold raised to £12,500. It has been reported, enthusiastically, by Hammond, that this mean that 40% of the country will now pay no income tax at all.

Just think about that for a moment.....

40% of this country are earning less than £12,500 a year.

Austerity is not over.

Is that £12,500 a year gross income or taxable income after standard deductions? Not having paid taxes in the UK I am uninformed.
Edit to add this link.
a link for woodburner


For VT: people who declare themselves as self employed, who have to submit a tax return, are allowed a lot of deductions for vehicles, expenses etc. They pay the same 2 taxes as employees. UK employees don't have to submit tax returns and it is deducted by the employer.
The taxes are income tax:
about 20% [varies at a gov whim] on gross earnings-£12500 then at a higher step [about 40%] I think at earnings-£40000 [a guess]

National insurance is not credited under about £115 per week wages. This means you get no guaranteed state welfare [pension, unemployment benefit etc] These build up with continuous national insurance 'credits'. Bizzarely some welfare does exist as 'means tested' so if you manage to reach 68 after never finding a job, you will get help if you fit very strict rules eg a couple is assessed in total. Means tested people find themselves in wierd situations. You can't take a low paid job because means-testing rules mean you lose all earnings or even more.
Back to the bizarre NI tax; if you earn £115 to £160 a week [might have altered] there is a daft sliding scale where your employer pays some NI to employ you! Over £160 you and the employer both pay a bit just like a private pension, and over a much higher wage, NI morphes into a fixed %income tax just like regular income tax.

NI tax is a joke and is just used to pretend income tax is lower in a gov game with the media. It is a tax on employment.


Last edited by fuzzy on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Potemkin Villager



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Narnia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I can see the tory budget amounts to appearing to hand out a few crumbs and even the odd slice with a great flourish, after having stolen several loaves, and smugly expecting folk to be eternally grateful. This sort of cheap political stroke usually shortly precedes a general election.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A goggle search showed me UK gov. tables.
https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters
From that I get that the combined payments (both employee and employer added together) work out for a employee making £500 a week to £87.20 and for a £1000/week worker to £179.52 and for the fortunate to earn £4000/wk £679.39/wk.
The combined rate for incomes over £892/wk is 15.8%.
Apparently the single man pays the same as a married man with six children.
Am I reading that correctly.
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woodburner



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 3775

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vt, in your post of Oct 30 @ 20:17, would you change the very long link into something less screen hungry using the [url={link}]some words[/url] format so I can read the posts on my iPad please?

And fuzzy, can you do the same where you’ve quoted vt’s post?
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