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Iraq watch
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18551
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Iraq watch Reply with quote

France offers asylum to Christians from northern Iraq. I wonder if the UK government will do the same (after all, it was the UK not the France that went to war against Iraq). http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/07/28/France-offers-asylum-to-Mosul-s-Christians-.html

Quote:
Mark John, Reuters
Monday, 28 July 2014
France said on Monday it was ready to welcome Christians from northern Iraq who have been told by the al Qaeda offshoot group now ruling the region to either convert to Islam, pay a religious levy or face death.

Islamic State insurgents seized large swathes of northern Iraq last month, prompting hundreds of Christian families in Mosul to flee a city which has hosted the faith since its earliest years.

"We are providing aid to displaced people fleeing from the threats of Islamic Sate and who have sought refuge in Kurdistan.

We are ready, if they wish, to facilitate their asylum on our soil," France’s foreign and interior ministers said in a joint statement.

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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should. It is our moral duty

And not just for Iraq but for the Muslim world where Christians are facing unprecedented persecution.

Sadly the Muslims never march for Christians in the ME.
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will the west let 40,000 die for following the wrong version of Islam?
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/08/06/235615/kurds-want-us-to-drop-water-to.html
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PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Us airstrikes against is have been announced. However I suspect they are because is have turned on the Kurds who are retreating and losing control of oil fields. The oil comes first.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US airstrikes confirmed against IS targets.

Oil and the markets were getting very twitchy this morning, but this news has calmed them a bit. Oil companies have started evacuating staff from Ibril.

IS overrunning Kurdistan is a bit of a nightmare scenario however you look at it. IS seem to be shaping up to be brutal in a way we haven't seen for a couple of decades - I am reminded of the Khmer Rouge. I guess this is what you get when you combine sustained cultural suppression with a fundamentalist religious movement in control of the education of boys with few other prospects and a massive influx of money and weapons.

2014 is getting a bit too much 1914 for my liking, lots of clashes of empires, resource constraints, outmoded politics and diplomatic alliances and a central flashpoint in eastern Europe. And a pandemic on the horizon...
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just who is supplying the money?
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snow hope



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS_RalphW wrote:
US airstrikes confirmed against IS targets.

2014 is getting a bit too much 1914 for my liking, lots of clashes of empires, resource constraints, outmoded politics and diplomatic alliances and a central flashpoint in eastern Europe. And a pandemic on the horizon...


Exactly my thoughts.... Shocked Sad
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
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Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow hope wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:
US airstrikes confirmed against IS targets.

2014 is getting a bit too much 1914 for my liking, lots of clashes of empires, resource constraints, outmoded politics and diplomatic alliances and a central flashpoint in eastern Europe. And a pandemic on the horizon...


Exactly my thoughts.... Shocked Sad

Yes quite worrisome.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the BBC News website currently at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28729361 there's this paragraph:
"Christians. The majority are Chaldeans, part of the Catholic Church
Numbers have fallen from around 1.5 million since the US-led invasion in 2003 to 350,000-450,000"
What happened to the missing million plus since we invaded Iraq is not explained.
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PS_RalphW



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maliki (prime minister) is 'kicked out' by the (Kurdish) Iraqi president and replaced with another member of Maliki's own party.

Troops loyal to Maliki on the streets of Baghdad.

Which side will win ? Will it make any difference?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/11/nouri-al-maliki-iraq-forced-out-prime-minister
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either way the Christians in Iraq are doomed.

All the Muslims only care about in Britain is Gaza. What about the Kurds, Christians and other minorities who have done nothing wrong but want to practise their faith.

The double standards are appalling.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Either way the Christians in Iraq are doomed.

All the Muslims only care about in Britain is Gaza. What about the Kurds, Christians and other minorities who have done nothing wrong but want to practise their faith.

The double standards are appalling.
Firstly, I think it is grossly disingenuous to say that the only thing Muslims care about in the UK is Gaza. Secondly, the issue with the Christians and other minority religions in Iraq, for instance, is only now becoming a truly massive issue. Even then, given that Western governments have demonstrated time and time again that they consider Muslim (especially dark-skinned Muslim) blood to be cheaper than anyone else's, the Muslims of the UK might well be inclined to see the plight of the Iraqi Christians as a secondary issue. In the end that's inexcusable, but it is understandable.

Also it's worth noting, finally, that despite current events and certain blood-thirsty aspects of the Koran being decidedly anti-anything not Muslim, the historical facts on the ground bear out a somewhat different story. If you care to look over the last several centuries and analyse how various Muslim countries treated their Christian and Jewish minorities as compared to how various Christian countries have treated both the Jews and the Muslims, that comparison does not favour the Christian countries. Quite the contrary, in fact.
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Lord Beria3



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree historically that Jews and other minorities have done better under Islam than Christian Europe (certainly true during the Dark Ages) and let us never forget the horrors of Nazism.

However, saying all that, the reality is that at the moment I would 100% prefer to be a Muslim in Europe (for all people go on about so called Islamophobia) than a Christian or even a Shia Muslim in the vast majority of the Muslim world.

That's a sad statistic and tells you that something has gone terribly wrong in Islam. Muslims should be having a frank conversation about this among other matters.

In stead, they retreat to their comfort zone of attacking Israel. I also disagree with you in your assertion (again playing into the dominant islamist narrative) that the West cares less about Muslims dying than Christians.

Christians have been killed across the Muslim world for years now with almost no response from Western leaders. When the Gaza crisis erupts every few years in violence I see a lot of speeches by Western leaders... very little if anything when poor Pakistani Christians and other minorities suffer bloody pogroms. The bottom line is that too often there seems to be a attitude among too many in the Muslim community that Muslim lives are more important than non-Muslims (kaffirs).

Maybe that is inevitable with the umma narrative but it is still wrong.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Beria3 wrote:
Agree historically that Jews and other minorities have done better under Islam than Christian Europe (certainly true during the Dark Ages) and let us never forget the horrors of Nazism.

However, saying all that, the reality is that at the moment I would 100% prefer to be a Muslim in Europe (for all people go on about so called Islamophobia) than a Christian or even a Shia Muslim in the vast majority of the Muslim world.

That's a sad statistic and tells you that something has gone terribly wrong in Islam. Muslims should be having a frank conversation about this among other matters.

In stead, they retreat to their comfort zone of attacking Israel. I also disagree with you in your assertion (again playing into the dominant islamist narrative) that the West cares less about Muslims dying than Christians.

Christians have been killed across the Muslim world for years now with almost no response from Western leaders. When the Gaza crisis erupts every few years in violence I see a lot of speeches by Western leaders... very little if anything when poor Pakistani Christians and other minorities suffer bloody pogroms. The bottom line is that too often there seems to be a attitude among too many in the Muslim community that Muslim lives are more important than non-Muslims (kaffirs).

Maybe that is inevitable with the umma narrative but it is still wrong.
I don't think it's that Western governments/elites cares less about Muslims. I think it's that they care less about whoever is in the way of the oil. This just happens to be largely dark-skinned Muslims. The fact that such racial/religious discrimination is only incidental and not designed will be of little comfort to dark skinned Muslims I would think. Additionally, all of the above goes a considerable way towards explaining the relative silence of our governments about Christian and other minority groups from those regions. They too are, at best, an irrelevance in terms of accessing the oil and, at worst, a distraction.
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Lord Beria3



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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Location: Moscow Russia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that I agree with you.

However, with all the focus on the West, let us not forget that the main funders of ISIS are Gulf States.

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/isis-next-targets-jordan-and-saudi-arabia

Saying that, they might be regretting it now. ISIS may turn on Saudi Arabia soon... these leaders NEVER learn. They fund and promote extremists and wonder when these same forces turn on them!!!
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