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New Book - This Changes Everything - Naomi Klein
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If over 90% of the universal units of exchange, otherwise commonly referred to as "money", are, at all times, lent-into-existence credit, then it is simply not relevant to state that this credit is being constantly extinguished by repayment/default because it is being constantly replaced (and, indeed, increased). For all purposes that matter (given that this credit is never allowed to deflate in supply) we may legitimately say that over 90% of money in circulation is bank credit. This is simply a fact.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecook172001 wrote:
... For all purposes that matter (given that this credit is never allowed to deflate in supply)...


If only that were true. After the crash banks weren't lending and money supply was going down so the BOE gave the banks 375 billion in an effort to get them lending again. It did, but to the wrong people who promptly spent it inflating the stock market and property industries. So we now have a few thousand people who are decidedly richer and the rest of us who are decidedly poorer!
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biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:

Quote:
With a $4 billion price tag, the recent US midterm election was the most expensive in the countrys history.


$4 billion!


We've just been planning how we can raise the 500 for our Green Party candidate's deposit before next May. Smile
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:
... For all purposes that matter (given that this credit is never allowed to deflate in supply)...


If only that were true. After the crash banks weren't lending and money supply was going down so the BOE gave the banks 375 billion in an effort to get them lending again. It did, but to the wrong people who promptly spent it inflating the stock market and property industries. So we now have a few thousand people who are decidedly richer and the rest of us who are decidedly poorer!
Oh, I don't dispute that the funny money has gone elsewhere in the system. but the point stands. That is to say, the credit supply is never willingly allowed to deflate Even if that means blowing up another unsustainable credit bubble somewhere else in the system.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
emordnilap wrote:

Quote:
With a $4 billion price tag, the recent US midterm election was the most expensive in the countrys history.


$4 billion!


We've just been planning how we can raise the 500 for our Green Party candidate's deposit before next May. Smile


That's nothing. Bit of a rant ahead. Think about some of these figures:

    1) About 2 billion would totally overhaul the Irish public water system, providing clean water to anyone who needs it, getting rid of leaks and lead pipes.

    2) The cost to the government for running the present water system is roughly 1.3 billion per annum.

    3) 43% of water is currently lost through leaks - so about 500 million of that 1.3 billion is wasted.

    4) The government is trying to get a private company to raise, via a new water tax, roughly 500 million a year...to provide water. It has just spent that amount (which I can only assume came from taxpayers, as no demands have gone out yet) installing water meters. It has 'taken on' all the old council water staff. Again, I must assume they're still being paid by the taxpayer. They were even promised bonuses, though that's being renegotiated.

    5) Our government gave 70.3 billion of our money (for instance, we had 80 billion in pure cash reserves!) to several failed, free market, private banking enterprises, none of which are doing very well.


2B versus 70B. I love the Irish. I love everyone, including Americans. I do not like governments, especially American governments - but for sheer bare-faced incompetence, I know who gets the prize.
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biffvernon



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But on the positive side, it does rain a lot in Ireland, and will probably rain more with global warming.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
But on the positive side, it does rain a lot in Ireland, and will probably rain more with global warming.


70 billion would put a glass roof over Ireland. Wink
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Potemkin Villager



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read a bit more of this now. She makes a great and impressively detailed case why we are ****** and then bets the house on the day being saved by ****** over and marginalized folk on the fossil front line who will come to the rescue of us the majority of demand side selfish bastards who just have to have our fossil fix wherever it may come from and at whatever environmental and human cost.
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RenewableCandy



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to sum up, we're truly fecked, then.

Thought so.
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potemkin Villager wrote:
I have read a bit more of this now. She makes a great and impressively detailed case why we are ****** and then bets the house on the day being saved by ****** over and marginalized folk on the fossil front line who will come to the rescue of us the majority of demand side selfish bastards who just have to have our fossil fix wherever it may come from and at whatever environmental and human cost.


Yes, she is very upbeat. I admire her and her team immensely but cannot match her for optimism. Did you listen to/watch her at the Bioneers thingy? I was a tad embarrassed TBH. But that's just me: I don't want to curb well-meaning enthusiasm.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're tempting me with these reviews. Roll on Christmas when I can start reading!!
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can thoroughly recommend the book, despite the reservations outlined here and elsewhere.

She may not have all (or indeed any) of the answers but we need more people like her looking for them, suggesting them, writing about them and - more importantly - implementing them. She herself admits to change within herself since starting the research. This is good.
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3rdRock
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Did you listen to/watch her at the Bioneers thingy?

Do you have a link please EM?

I've just started reading NK's new book and wholeheartedly agree with all of your comments to date. Smile
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emordnilap



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shortfall wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Did you listen to/watch her at the Bioneers thingy?

Do you have a link please EM?


Sure, there you go.
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3rdRock
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
Shortfall wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Did you listen to/watch her at the Bioneers thingy?

Do you have a link please EM?


Sure, there you go.

Thanks. Much appreciated. Smile
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