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Russia Watch
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Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
Automaton wrote:

You're saying they can decontaminate a pub, a restaurant and other places around Salisbury, but they can't decontaminate a few vehicles?


So are you agreeing with Little John that the ambulances and police cars are buried for anti Russia propaganda? or;

Do you think a heinous chemical weapons attack was carried out in Salisbury by the Russian state?


That's the sum of my options then, is it? Not so... what I'm saying is that what you said was daft.

But ok... I'll answer your ridiculous misdirection:
1. Why couldn't the ambulances and police cars have been buried for anti-Russian propaganda? If we've been lied to about the whole affair, why wouldn't they continue to supply more 'evidence' to back up their story? It's perfectly feasible, and at least that makes sense. Should we call it 'highly likely'?
2. That a 'heinous chemical weapons attack was carried out in Salisbury by the Russian state' could be true, but there is no evidence to support that story. There are also holes in the official story that suggest we are being lied to. Anyone who believes such an attack occurred without considering the facts is already biased: ready and willing to believe in another tale of wicked Russians with evil schemes, no matter how implausible.

You're probably also convinced that 'we're the good guys'....
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anti Russian propoganda it is then.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 891
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the evidence was an extreme health risk, they wouldn't have shipped it from where the army facilities are located, up the M5 to cheltenham. There are plenty of sites to bury things in wiltshire.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what are you saying,

Novichok is not critically toxic, and never killed anyone?

or the burying of the police cars and ambulances was anti Russian propaganda?
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6802
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, we are just saying you are a credulous fool and adopting Cathy Newman ("so you are saying") debating tactics does not ameliorate that.

Last edited by Little John on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who'd have thunked it!

Abuse from an abuser.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 891
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
So what are you saying,

Novichok is not critically toxic, and never killed anyone?

or the burying of the police cars and ambulances was anti Russian propaganda?


I am saying that the army ground zero is wiltshire, where the incident 'occured'. They have underground towns with railways, entire regions eg salisbury plain, massive property and land area, porton down etc. Why would you put it on the back of an HGV, drive it past the M4 M5 almondsbury interchange - or over the M4, past swindon, the queue of traffic at air balloon roundabout, Cheltenham etc.

You aren't at GCHQ, Stumuz are you??

As for Novochick, I know sweet fa about it until this event. I have read biohazard by Ken Alibek. The ruskies made tonnes of bioweapons including the nastiest stuff. Just like the yanks and the japs.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:

I am saying that the army ground zero is wiltshire, where the incident 'occured'. They have underground towns with railways, entire regions eg salisbury plain, massive property and land area, porton down etc. Why would you put it on the back of an HGV, drive it past the M4 M5 almondsbury interchange - or over the M4, past swindon, the queue of traffic at air balloon roundabout, Cheltenham etc.


So are you saying,

The police cars and ambulances are not buried in Cheltenham? or they were buried in Cheltenham for anti Russian propaganda?

'Automaton' and Little John have been quite clear s/he believes it was "anti Russian propaganda"

BTW novichok is a chemical weapon, not a biological weapon.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
Posts: 891
Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would I know the facts? The only fact is it would be mad to move 'deadly' stuff by road or air to cheltenham when it is in a county dominated by UK army assets, property and land.

Ask your supervisor if you want a clearer picture. I doubt if they can or will tell you.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply and thank you for not being abusive.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/04/netherlands-halted-russian-cyber-attack-on-chemical-weapons-body

More evidence for the heinous chemical weapons attack in Salisbury.

Or more anti Russian propaganda for the conspiracy theorists.
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Little John



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 6802
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the avalanche of lies from the first Iraq war though to Libya and Syria, only a f***ing imbecile would accept the word of our intelligence services in the absence of independently verifiable evidence.

You have written enough here for me to know what you are.
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stumuz1



Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Anglesey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay more abuse!
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Automaton



Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stumuz1 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/04/netherlands-halted-russian-cyber-attack-on-chemical-weapons-body

More evidence for the heinous chemical weapons attack in Salisbury.

Or more anti Russian propaganda for the conspiracy theorists.


It was inevitable that you would come to Powerswitch with this, because that's what trolls do. But ok... you want to provoke a response so, let's explore your thorough and intelligently presented argument:

The article you've linked to is not 'more' evidence of any kind in relation to whatever happened in Salisbury. Accusations are not evidence, ever. Only facts are. And there still aren't any facts that show the Russians were responsible. Why do you refuse to see that?
It seems that maybe you missed what the article is actually about; did you actually bother to read it before assuming it backed up your lack of facts? Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume what the article says is true, then it's about spies being caught spying. Well.... isn't that just shocking!
Tell me seriously: if you were Russian intelligence, wouldn't you want to know what the western countries who have identified you as their enemy are up to? Of course you would. Whether the Russian did or did not do what they've been accused of in Salisbury, they (you) would still want to know.

The stories we're fed in the media are just that; stories, with just a smattering of facts (if we're lucky). If we want to understand what really goes on in the world we have to sift through those stories, from sources on both sides, to see if we can find any facts, and then figure out the truth for ourselves. If we don't do that then we don't know anything. Of course it's easier just to go with your pre-programmed biases, and believe whatever they say that supports those biases. We're capable of more, but unfortunately most people are too busy or too lazy to bother.
The people seeking the truth, as far as this is possible, are not the worst of the bad guys.
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kenneal - lagger
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 11137
Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...only a f***ing imbecile would accept the word of
the Russian
Quote:
intelligence services in the absence of independently verifiable evidence.

You have written enough here for me to know what you are.


In the absence of independently verifiable evidence we are all entitled to our own opinions and opinions are all we have in the absence ....... . And we are all entitled to our own opinions.
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