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Tesla battery launch
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kenneal - lagger
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Location: Newbury, Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After nearly six years use my lead acid batteries are coming up for replacement but I was going for lead acid replacements, although probably gell filled rather than the older liquid filled ones that have done so well for me so far.
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Pepperman



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:
Discontinued: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/03/19/tesla-discontinues-10-kilowatt-hour-powerwall-home-battery/


I never quite understood why they were bothering with a 7 and a 10kWh version. Makes sense for them to focus only on the 7kWh version.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
The correct battery for domestic storage is NiFe as it has a very long life, simple tech, and the only weakness of self discharge is unimportant.

Any company waffling about using lithium batteries for home systems isn't developing anything. They are buying electric car batteries and making fancy packages while BSing investors.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/nickel_based_batteries


Nah lithium batteries will end up much cheaper than NiFes. I like the longevity and robustness of the NiFe but t is a pricey technology.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenneal - lagger wrote:
After nearly six years use my lead acid batteries are coming up for replacement but I was going for lead acid replacements, although probably gell filled rather than the older liquid filled ones that have done so well for me so far.


Why gels? I like the maintainability of flooded batteries. You don't get that with gels I believe.

Don't forget they have a different charge profile to flooded batteries if you do install them.
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fuzzy



Joined: 29 Nov 2013
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Location: The Marches, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pepperman wrote:
fuzzy wrote:
The correct battery for domestic storage is NiFe as it has a very long life, simple tech, and the only weakness of self discharge is unimportant.

Any company waffling about using lithium batteries for home systems isn't developing anything. They are buying electric car batteries and making fancy packages while BSing investors.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/nickel_based_batteries


Nah lithium batteries will end up much cheaper than NiFes. I like the longevity and robustness of the NiFe but t is a pricey technology.


I am not denying that Lithium will be the dominant and competitively priced battery, as it is developed for portable markets. This means that home power storage is even less practical. What is needed is a low cost NiFe genuine manufacturing enterprise. These could be poorer versions compared to the expensive proprietary brands, but self discharge in a battery that is charged daily is unimportant. All that matters is that it lasts decades under variable cycling.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pepperman wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
After nearly six years use my lead acid batteries are coming up for replacement but I was going for lead acid replacements, although probably gell filled rather than the older liquid filled ones that have done so well for me so far.


Why gels? I like the maintainability of flooded batteries. You don't get that with gels I believe.

Don't forget they have a different charge profile to flooded batteries if you do install them.


I like not having to buy and replace the deionised water every week. My inverter/charger has a separate setting for gell batteries.
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adam2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are having to top up flooded batteries every week, then that suggests that they being overcharged, perhaps by a defective or wrongly programmed charger.
It is sensible to check batteries each week, but if topping up is required more often than monthly AT THE WORST then that to me suggests something amiss.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Adam. Definitely worth checking your voltage set points.

I check the water level in our T105s every few months. They barely lose any water at all.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzy wrote:
I am not denying that Lithium will be the dominant and competitively priced battery, as it is developed for portable markets. This means that home power storage is even less practical. What is needed is a low cost NiFe genuine manufacturing enterprise. These could be poorer versions compared to the expensive proprietary brands, but self discharge in a battery that is charged daily is unimportant. All that matters is that it lasts decades under variable cycling.


If they can get the cost down then it probably makes sense. And if you're doing it on a lifecycle basis they no doubt work out much cheaper than current lithium tech. I would query whether they're a good match for solar though. From what I understand lithium will be much better at taking partial charges from variable sources than most other battery chemistries although I'm not familiar with the NiFe charge cycle.

My suspicion is that lithium battery prices are going to fall quickly and it'll make sense to use them in stationary applications before long.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam2 wrote:
If you are having to top up flooded batteries every week, then that suggests that they being overcharged, perhaps by a defective or wrongly programmed charger.
It is sensible to check batteries each week, but if topping up is required more often than monthly AT THE WORST then that to me suggests something amiss.


I'm charging at the top rate for the batteries, 100A, to get them charged within the 4/5 hour running time for the genny. They're in a shed which can get quite warm in the summer although it is well ventilated.
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Pepperman



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know what voltage your charger is delivering? Should be topping out at something like 14.8V in absorption mode (the battery's datasheet should indicate the correct voltage). If you're up much higher than that then that could be the reason for the water loss.
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kenneal - lagger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It usually charges at between 13.5 and 14V max, measured at the battery terminals.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm that's really quite low! Most puzzling.
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Mark



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Location: NW England

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inside Tesla's gigantic Gigafactory:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36893104

Does Elon Musk have more money than sense? Or could it actually be more sense than money ? The chief executive of Tesla is, in a post-Steve-Jobs world, the stand-out visionary voice in Silicon Valley. There's no question about that. But with each product launch - or, in this case, a building launch - it seems he needs both more time and more money to realise his own ambitions. The more he achieves, the bigger the task, and budget, seems to get. During a typically scorching Tuesday afternoon in the Nevada desert, near Reno, Mr Musk told a group of journalists about his global manufacturing ambitions.

We had just had a tour of the new Gigafactory, Tesla's $5bn (3.8bn) 3,200-acre battery-manufacturing plant that has already begun production but will not be in full swing until about 2020. At that point, it will have the largest physical footprint of any building in the world. By making battery cells here, Mr Musk hopes he will be able to innovate faster and cut out about 30% of the cost. The factory is a tie-up with the company that already makes Tesla's cells, Panasonic.

Continues....
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vtsnowedin



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 4264
Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Inside Tesla's gigantic Gigafactory:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36893104

Does Elon Musk have more money than sense? Or could it actually be more sense than money ? The chief executive of Tesla is, in a post-Steve-Jobs world, the stand-out visionary voice in Silicon Valley. There's no question about that. But with each product launch - or, in this case, a building launch - it seems he needs both more time and more money to realise his own ambitions. The more he achieves, the bigger the task, and budget, seems to get. During a typically scorching Tuesday afternoon in the Nevada desert, near Reno, Mr Musk told a group of journalists about his global manufacturing ambitions.

We had just had a tour of the new Gigafactory, Tesla's $5bn (3.8bn) 3,200-acre battery-manufacturing plant that has already begun production but will not be in full swing until about 2020. At that point, it will have the largest physical footprint of any building in the world. By making battery cells here, Mr Musk hopes he will be able to innovate faster and cut out about 30% of the cost. The factory is a tie-up with the company that already makes Tesla's cells, Panasonic.

Continues....

I'm a bit old school I admit ,but I would want to be the most efficient factory in the world on a saleable unit cost basis rather then the largest factory that is perhaps losing $5.00 for every $100 spent.
Are you building something that cost you $50.00 to build each that you can sell for $100 each? If not why should I care how big you are?
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