PowerSwitch Main Page
PowerSwitch
The UK's Peak Oil Discussion Forum & Community
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Labour Party Watch
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 65, 66, 67  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Government and Society
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tarrel



Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 2449
Location: Ross-shire, Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biffvernon wrote:
Dunno why anyone should listen to Blair. He ought to be in jail. Sad


The thrust of the article is that his intervention was a reminder of how Labour ended up in this mess in the first place.
_________________
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18541
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But he got the diagnosis 180 wrong. It was his invasion of Iraq that started the slide.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnhemming2



Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 2159

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much that I agree with Corbyn about Iraq, there are many other issues and I don't agree with Corbyn about the general issue of the economy - which is an important issue to many people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3rdRock
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarrel wrote:
James McEnaney: Why we should welcome Tony Blair's intervention in Labour leader race:

https://commonspace.scot/articles/1951/james-mcenaney-why-we-should-welcome-tony-blair-s-intervention-in-labour-leader-race

Article suggesting that the dropping of Clause 4 was the start of Labour's demise and how "weather-vane" politics needs to be replaced by principles once again.

Quote:
The Labour party had not just the right, but also the duty, to join SNP, Plaid Cymru, Liberal Democrat, Green, SDLP and DUP MPs in opposing these cuts - in failing to do so it has all but relinquished the right to call itself the opposition.

We are facing a government which pays for cuts to corporation tax by plunging ever-more vulnerable human beings into despair, and the Labour party has not the courage or the conviction to unequivocally condemn it.

People up and down the country - many of them card-carrying party members - will now be asking the same question posed by Nicola Sturgeon: "If Labour is not about standing up for the vulnerable, trying to lift people out of poverty and help those who are working hard to make ends meet, then what on earth is Labour for?"

Jeremy Corbyn is right - and so is our old friend, the war criminal, Blair.

Corbyn, because he cherishes the old values of 'standing up for the vulnerable, trying to lift people out of poverty and helping those who are working hard to make ends meet'. An old style socialist who hasn't lost sight of his humanitarian principles.

Blair, because he realises that the Tories (see banks and corporations) have done such an effective job in convincing the sheeple that these same socialist values are 'so yesterday'.

The poor, the young, the unemployed and the sick are responsible for all of society's ills.

Why would any sane member of the electorate want to vote for a party that represents the 'losers' when 'hard working people' would be made to pay the price under any future Labour government?

Today's aspirational voters are drinking Prosecco not brown ale. They emulate celebrities. Materialism is the new religion, regardless of the price they have to pay.

The people will only see sense when the shit well and truly hits the fan, economically, geologically, environmentally and militarily. Sad
Back to top
clv101
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 8523

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely it's up to the four candidates to make their cases, personally, themselves. Then for the electorate, one member one vote, to choose.

I hate to hear the string of talking heads on the radio 'warning' not to elect Corbyn.

It almost sounds like there are those in the Labour party or whom winning the next general election is the most important thing and their roll is the morph the party into whatever it will take to win. This is a bonkers strategy - there would be no point at all in a Labour party that simply recast itself as the Conservative party based on the evidence of the last two elections.

The point about weathervanes and signposts is particularly relevant to the Labour party just now.
_________________
PowerSwitch on Facebook | The Oil Drum | Twitter | Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cubes



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 701
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Paul Lewis's tweet here

https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/623942139085488128

"Tony Blair warns that Jeremy Corbyn is a destructive force that can be launched at the Labour Party within 45 minutes"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18541
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clv101 wrote:

The point about weathervanes and signposts is particularly relevant to the Labour party just now.

Yes, Mhairi Black was spot on to quote Tony Benn. We need leaders, not followers.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
3rdRock
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubes wrote:
I like Paul Lewis's tweet here

https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/623942139085488128

"Tony Blair warns that Jeremy Corbyn is a destructive force that can be launched at the Labour Party within 45 minutes"

Laughing Corbyn - a Weapon of Mass Despondency.

Joking aside, he appears to be one of the only politicians within the Labour Party with a backbone.

The other spineless contenders will, undoubtedly, prostitute all of their ideals for a chance to obtain one of the glittering prizes.
Back to top
PS_RalphW



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 5723
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't put it beyond possibility that a Corbyn win and an unconstrained Tory party inflicting massive austerity on the poor, implosion of the NHS, etc., combined with a sharp rebound in the price of oil in a year or two, leading to a Labour landslide in 5 years time, when the current Tory voting pensioners have either died or realised that they desperately need a bit more humanity from society.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14572
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good point about oil, Ralph.

The consequences of the cost of oil rising are going to require a lot of popcorn. Laughing It's eye-opening how prices have stayed so low for so long.
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14572
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a very informative (i.e. short) list of Labour MPs here who opposed the latest of the Tories' attacks on the poorest in Britain.

Is your MP on the list? Yes or no, it's worth bearing in mind.

In fairness, many other parties opposed the cuts.

Quote:
Harriet Harman's stance that Labour should avoid opposing the Tories' ideologically driven and economically illiterate austerity agenda because they need to appeal to Tory voters is absolutely crackers. Only 24% of the electorate voted for the Tories, while 34% were too apathetic or too disillusioned to vote at all. Surely it would make more sense for Labour to try to strongly differentiate themselves from the Tories in order to appeal to the huge numbers of people out there who have lost faith in politics because "they're all the same aren't they?" rather than making themselves ever more indistinguishable from the Tories?

_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3rdRock
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
There's a very informative (i.e. short) list of Labour MPs here who opposed the latest of the Tories' attacks on the poorest in Britain.

Is your MP on the list? Yes or no, it's worth bearing in mind.

In fairness, many other parties opposed the cuts.

Quote:
Harriet Harman's stance that Labour should avoid opposing the Tories' ideologically driven and economically illiterate austerity agenda because they need to appeal to Tory voters is absolutely crackers. Only 24% of the electorate voted for the Tories, while 34% were too apathetic or too disillusioned to vote at all. Surely it would make more sense for Labour to try to strongly differentiate themselves from the Tories in order to appeal to the huge numbers of people out there who have lost faith in politics because "they're all the same aren't they?" rather than making themselves ever more indistinguishable from the Tories?

Thanks for that EM. A list worth retaining for future use.

It'll be good to know whose 'on-side' when this current bunch of ***** are thrown to the lions. I live in hope.
Back to top
3rdRock
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/23/labour-leadership-john-prescott-tony-blairs-totally-unacceptable-jeremy-corbyn

Quote:
Labour leadership: Prescott attacks Blair's 'totally unacceptable abuse'

Former deputy PM says his former bosss remarks aimed at supporters of Jeremy Corbyn were absolutely staggering.
Back to top
biffvernon



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 18541
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emordnilap wrote:
It's a good point about oil, Ralph.

The consequences of the cost of oil rising are going to require a lot of popcorn. Laughing It's eye-opening how prices have stayed so low for so long.


I think we're learning that it's not simply the price. It's the ability of economies to pay the price. The world can afford to pay $50 today for all the oil that can be produced. If more is demanded it won't automatically be produced. Increasing supply means going off-shore Brazil into the $100 territory hard-to-get oil and the economy can't stand that so maybe we never will see high prices, never will extract much of the unconventionals. Peak oil applies, but subtly.
_________________
http://biffvernon.blogspot.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
emordnilap



Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 14572
Location: Houǝsʇlʎ' ᴉʇ,s ɹǝɐllʎ uoʇ ʍoɹʇɥ ʇɥǝ ǝɟɟoɹʇ' pou,ʇ ǝʌǝu qoʇɥǝɹ˙

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never say never. Laughing Maybe never say maybe never as well.

That said, it's an interesting concept, that oil may not rise in price dramatically again. Hmmm. I'm simply working on the assumption that - usually - nothing stays the same.
_________________
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PowerSwitch Forum Index -> Government and Society All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 65, 66, 67  Next
Page 3 of 67

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group